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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1981-12-07 i' BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK DECEMBER 7 , 1981 ii TABLE OF CONTENTS I Page APPEAL NO. 1399 JFJ Enterprises WITHDRAWN 2 li 920 North Cayuga Street !'APPEAL NO. 1405 John $ Amy Place 2 p� 107 West Clinton Street ii '!APPEAL NO. 1405 Executive Session 6 i APPEAL NO. 1406 Stephen C. Zifchock (Fall Creek Laund) 7 1012 N. Aurora Street APPEAL NO. 1406 Executive Session 9 1i �1APPEAL NO. 1407 INHS 10 309 Second Street IAPPEAL NO. 1407 Executive Session 11 i APPEAL NO. 1408 Lakeview Cemetery 12 Rear of 208 Kline Road �IAPPEAL NO. 1408 Executive Session 14 li APPEAL N0, 1409 Gregory & Marjorie Katsoulis (Zorba' s) 15 i; 526 V. State Street i ! APPEAL NO. 1409 Executive Session 17 I1APPEAL NO, 1410 Tompkins County Chamber of Commerce 18 122 West Court Street APPEAL NO. 1410 Executive Session 37 I i IAPPEAL NO. 1411 H. Wallace & M. Freedman 38 622 Cascadilla Street I I1APPEAL NO. 1411 Executive Session 53 (i �1APPEAL NO, 1412 Robert & Natalie Baker 54 412-414 N. Tioga Street APPEAL NO, 1412 Executive Session 56 APPEAL NO. 12-1-81 Iry Lewis, Inc. (Eastern Copy Prod) 57 jj 303 West Lincoln St. I !APPEAL NO. 12-1-81 Executive Session 62 ,i CERTIFICATION OF RECORDING SECRETARY 63 it i II Ifi I BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK I DECEMBER 7 , 1981 �I IICHAIRMAN AMAN: I 'd like to call to order the December meeting of I ( the Board of Zoning Appeals, The Board operates under the Ithaca City Charter, the Ithaca Zoning Ordinance and the Ithaca Sign Or- dinance. Present this evening are all six members of the Board: Mr. Peter Walsh Mr. Morris Angell Mr. William Wilcox Ms . Margaret Haine I, Mr. Charles Weaver Chairman Fred Aman Thomas D. Hoard, Building Commis- sioner & Secretary to the Board Barbara Ruane , Recording Sec'y IFor those of you who are not familiar with our proceedings or our I !procedures, let me briefly tell you how we will conduct the meet- ing. We will call the cases up in the order that they are listed ion the agenda that you should have and we ask that the person re- questing the variance come forward and state your case, give us the reasons why you think you are entitled to the variance. The Board may or may not have questions for you after your presenta- tion. After you've made your case we will then ask for all those who wish to speak on behalf of your petition; that is , those who are in favor of your petition and then we will ask those to come (forward and speak who oppose your petition, if there is anyone in the audience that wishes to do that. I do ask, although we do not run this meeting according to strict rules of evidence, we do make our decisions based on the record that is compiled here and based on the evidence that we hear. And we do compile a transcript and there is a tape recording device here that takes down the proceed- ing, therefore it is important that we get everything on that trans- I script and it is helpful to us if you will come forward and make all your statements from this podium here up front. Occasionally lin the course of the meeting you may just want to add a sentence or two and people are tempted to stand up in the back of the room i Mand make a point. The problem with that is that it may be lost for the record and won't get on the record so we do ask that you come I �a is ii — 2 'i I forward and make all of your statements from the front of the room j IAnd when you do that you state your name and address for purposes of our record as well . After we have heard all of the cases , the ; Board goes into executive session and we deliberate at that time and I we will reconvene and announce our decisions . With that by way of introduction, we can call the first case. SECRETARY HOARD: The first case , Mr. Chairman is appeal number 111399 : Appeal of JFJ Enterprises for a Special Permit under Section 30. 26 , Paragraph C-4 to permit conversion of the existing gas station at 920 North Cayuga Street to a convenience food store and self service gas station. The property is located in an R-2b (residential) use district in which a neighborhood commercial facility requires a special permit from the Board of Zoning Appeals . The existing building will not be extended for the proposed use, other than a small addition for a built-in cooler At 11 : 40 this morning the attorney for JFJ Enterprises brought in � a letter withdrawing the appeal, It is addressed to me: "Because of the unfortunate adverse reaction to the application of JFJ Enterprises for permission to operate a community facility I have ( advised them and they do hereby withdraw their application without j� prejudice to a sub.sequent application to the neighborhood situa- tion change . Would you please communicate this to the Board of jZoning Appeals and any members of the public who may be in atten- I dance at this evening' s meeting. I appreciate your kindness and courtesies . Thank you very much. Very truly yours , /s/ Robert J, Hines" So that case has been withdrawn and if they decide to l, reappeal , they would be filing a new appeal and notice would go lout again to the neighbors. So the next case then would be appeal number 1405 : Appeal of John and Amy Place for an area variance under Section 30, 253, Columns 4 , 6 , 7, 12, and 13 to permit the conversion of the existing two-family house at 107 West Clinton Street to two offices and a single dwelling unit. The property is located in � a B-4 (business) use district, where the uses are permitted; however the property j is deficient in required off-street parking? II minimum lot area and width, and minimum side yard set backs , IIVOICE IN THE AUDIENCE: Do I understand the letter from Mr, Hines I that the variance was ('unintelligibl'e) ? I i - 3 - ! CHAIRMAN AMAN: Yes . i I ; MR. PLACE: I 'm John Place and I live on 107 W. Clinton Street, ; Ithaca. We are requesting the variance to - the house is on a i livery small lot, 291-, x 106 or something like that and we can' t 1' overcome these limitations of the lot size due to the gas station on one side and the house in very close proximity - 105 I think it is or 109 - so we are requesting the variance. One argument is we are - our business is called Health and Stress Reduction Associates and it' s an in-home business so I can practice pre- sently under the zoning laws without any variance . However one hof the reasons we are asking for this variance is that if we were Ito upgrade the house and improve it there would be no benefit if we were to put an office in there without getting the zoning variance then the house wouldn' t be saleable and so we need that to make the kinds of improvements we'd like to see made to that house - that' s the primary reason. The reason we are asking for two offices is that I don' t personally need all of the space on ! the first floor for my business and at some point - I 've had a number of people in the counseling profession say they may be interested in renting a small room for the purpose of counseling, that ' s the reason why we are asking for two offices . CHAIRMAN AMAN: How many parking places are you deficient in this proposal? i MR. PLACE: We have no parking at all so we are deficient I be leve, presently, I think we' d be deficient in terms of four. How ,lever, under the grandfather clause, or whatever, initially the jhouse was a three family house and then it didn' t meet code so i Il that' s presently, considered a two family house , so that , I think I' if it was brought up to code - probably we are saying one parking space. One of the things with the work that I do , is that I Isee people individually so that it doesn' t make an extreme load on I the parking particularly with the city parking lot kiddi-korner i , from the house - that has ample space there. I do also see client ,i,n the evening and there is an abundance of street parking as well . I ;!CHAIRMAN AMAN: What' s the nature of your business? t I; E I! :I - 4 - MR. PLACE: I do massage therapy, I do stress reduction, I teach classes at Cornell and other places in the process of teaching ; people how to relax - work with people who have high blood pressur � - training them how to lower their blood pressure without medica- tion and things like that. MR. WALSH: Has this case been before the Planning Board? I, ji MR. PLACE: Yes . MR. WALSH: T don' t see their recommendation here . MR. PLACE: It was a month ago and their recommendation was to i find two parking spaces , one for each office - for our personal cars or whatever and we have rented space from the city lot but th certificate allows us to park in any of the three lots overnight and during the day. Since we are going to be a one vehicle family Zwe don' t we haven' t rented to two and as far as in the immediate or near future there is no plans to have anybody else sharing the space - only if we go through the process of renovating so at this point it would be silly for us to have two spaces if they wouldn' t be useable by any of my clients as well as there is no Icar for it. We have looked into other parking nearby and essenr jltially most of the - like , for instance, the gas station they say, well , yes , you could probably park there but some days we fare too busy and so we really haven't got the access to spaces fright near by that we could guarantee for twelve months out of the _` year. CHAIRMAN AMAN: How many clients do you see in a regular business day? MR. PLACE: I spend between an hour and one-half and two hours i with- each client so I am limited to four or five, CHAIRMAN AMAN: So it is not likely that you would have more than two cars in the area generated by the business at any given time? One car for the person who is there and a second car for someone coming? 4� MR. PLACE: Right, And it is two hour parking across the street. In other words, if the car is supposed to recycle every two hours Iso that in all probability there may even be parking right across the street on a regular basis . I, I �I 1' 5 - i MR. WEAVER: Question, if this remained a three family dwelling as I understand it can legally be, the parking requirements i legal non-conforming proposed? I; SECRETARY HOARD: Would you run through that again? IMR. WEAVER: If the building remained a three family dwelling, the � g Y g� parking requirements would be as high - that is , are the require- ments on this proposal? SECRETARY HOARD: Yes . i MR. WEAVER: So we are really not - conversion doesn' t impose any greater parking burden than already exists? SECRETARY HOARD: That is correct. CHAIRMAN AMAN: Any further questions? Thank you Mr. Place. MR. PLACE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN AMAN: Anyone here wishing to speak on behalf of the petition? (no one) Is there anyone here who wishes to speak in opposition? (no one) Hearing nothing further then, we will call the next case. SECRETARY HOARD: Before I call the next case - there are probably some people in the audience that are actually here for the Charter & Ordinance Committee meeting which is dealing with the Plumbing licenses and that is being held in this little room over here. I �j Ij I ii j - 6 - BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK DECEMBER 7 , 1981 i; ji EXECUTIVE SESSION APPEAL NO. 1405 : �j IIThe Board considered the appeal for an area variance to permit i the conversion of the existing two-family house at 107 West ,iClinton Street to two offices and a single dwelling unit . The Jdecision of the Board was as follows : CHAIRMAN ARAN: I move that the Board grant the area variance re- quested in appeal number 1405. , MR. WEAVER: I second the motion. i� ( VOTE: 6 Yes ; 0 No Granted FINDINGS OF FACT: jl) The nature of the business is such that it does not generate I a substantial amount of traffic, 2) The deficiency in off-street parking is made up by the loca- tion of the business which is kiddi-korner to a city parking lot , � 3) Practical difficulties have been shown with regard to the I ;f area, with the side yard deficiencies . i i f li I it ((I� I� I' i 1 If 7 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK �( DECEMBER 7 , 1981 'j SECRETARY HOARD: The next Board of Zoning Appeals case is appeal ; number 1406 : Appeal of Stephen C. Zifchock for an area I� variance under Section 30. 25 , Column 14 and Section 30 . 49 to permit the construction of a gabled roof on the existing flat-roofed building at 1012 North Aurora Street (Fall Creek Laundromat) . The property is located in an R-2b (residential) use district, but the construction constitutes an expansion in building size but not use or floor area; therefore only an area variance is neces- sary because of the deficient rear yard i setback. !' MR. ZIFCHOCK: Gentlemen. IiCHAIRMAN AMAN: Please just state your name and address for our j! record? i 1MR. ZIFCHOCK: My name is Jim Zifchock and I live in Trumansburg i ! New York. ! CHAIRMAN AMAN: Could you give us a synopsis of the proposed addi- I! lition and how it would change the present structure? i MR. ZIFCHOCK: Basically what it is , is a it ' s a building with a , flat roof on it. What I am proposing to do is put a gabled roof on it. Actually that is the only way the only difference in shape 1� the building is going to take will have a gabled roof on it. ,i MR. WALSH: Mr. Zifchock, doesyour proposal call for addition of M any useable space in the interior of the building? i MR. ZIFCHQCK: No, MR. WALSH: Not storage, not more machinery or anything in that order? i !, MR. ZIFCHOCK: No. MR. WALSH: Do you expect it to generate any more business as such or anything of that order? MR. ZIFCHOCK: I sort of doubt it. li l MR. ANGELL: How- does this affect your solar heating that we just 11gave you a variance for? I, MR. ZIFCHOCK: Well this is how we discovered how bad the roof was I{ i; - when we installed that little room to hold the controls - we .i if 8 ; found out the extent - the condition of the roof, which wasn' t goo so - considering all the alternatives to repair the roof - the gabled roof turned out to be the only way to repair it over a i lasting period of time . As far as the solar pursuits - it isn' t11 I ii going to affect that at all - it will still be the same. IMR. ANGELL: You mean you can put the solar system there? i� i MR. ZIFCHOCK: Yes. i 1MR. ANGELL: Where? MR. ZIFCHOCK: On the east side. I can get the same coverage on ! the east side of the roof. MR. ANGELL: As I recall you had a parapet over there so when you put the solar thing on it wouldn't be visible at all. And this no ii - how does this affect it? , MR. ZIFCHOCK: No, I don' t - as far as non-visibility - the panels I fare supposed to be - the panels are always at an angle to the sun' rays . The panels wouldn' t lay flat , Morrie. MR. ANGELL: I know they wouldn' t lay flat but they would have been practically invisible from ground level and now this will be laid flat on the surface of the roof? i MR. ZIFCHOCK: That' s right. The thing that we built last time is now coming off. MR. ANGELL: That? IIMR. ZIFCHOCK: The thing that we built last time will now have to jcome off, unfortunately. MR. ANGELL: How high is this roof from the floor of the present I I roof? MR. ZIFCHOCK: 87" - 85 to 87". MR. ANGELL: That' s at the peak? lMR. ZIFCHOCK: Yes . i SMR. ANGELL; So in other words, that is not going to be useable space at all? IMR. ZIFCHOCK: No. ,,MR. ANGELL: Nothing up there? MR. ZIFCHOCK: Nothing more than what' s up there now, which is the { ':controls. It will be fabricated with trusses which will you it !i ,I f' 9 - ;know - on two foot centers which is pretty much going to use up I 'any space that is up there to make it non-useable. IjCHAIRMAN AMAN: Any further questions? Thank you Mr. Zifchock. . MR. ZIFCHOCK: Thank you. I CHAIRMAN AMAN: Anyone here wishing to support the proposed addi- tion? (no one) Is there anyone here who opposes it? (no one) jHearing nothing further we will call the next case. I BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK DECEMBER 7, 1981 i EXECUTIVE SESSION f APPEAL NO. 1406 : �IThe Board considered the appear for an area variance to permit the (construction of a gabled roof on the existing flat-roofed building at 1012 North Aurora Street (Fall Creek Laundromat) . The decision ,of the Board was as follows : MR. WALSH: I move that the Board grant the area variance i requested in appeal number 1406. I !CHAIRMAN AMAN: I second the motion. VOTE: 6 Yes ; 0 No Granted FINDI'NG OF FACT: r. 11) The proposed change would add a gabled roof to the premises. This would not in any way change the interior of the building ij nor would it add any additional space , Under these circumstances the request for an area variance is Igranted. i I' I I; I i ij i i! - 10 - i I ii BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF I THACA NEW YORK i; DECEMBER 7 , 1981 ilSECRETARY HOARD: Once again, if anybody is here for the Charter & I{ 10rdinance Committee meeting on the plumbing licenses , it is in this I! 'iside conference room. The next case is appeal number 1407 : li j Appeal of Ithaca Neighborhood Housing Ser- vices , Inc. for an area variance under Sec- tion 30. 25 Column 12 to permit the use of i� the house at 309 Second Street as a two- family dwelling. The property is located in an R-3b (residential) use district in which two-family dwellings are permitted, however, the property is deficient in one side yard setback. 1� I�R. TESTA: I am Paul Testa, with Ithaca Neighborhood Housing Ser- 1 (vice, 520 W. Green Street. This house is on a lot which is defi li dent on one side because it is only one foot from the property line instead of the required five and there is a six inch encroach- I ent by the chimney. The use in the area permits a two family I ouse except for this side lot requirement . The house will be completely renovated and, in fact, will be smaller than it was be- 1i ore because of deteriorated addition that has been removed. There s off-street parking and the lot is more than sufficient in all th.er respects. HAIRMAN AMAN: How big a deficiency is there - side lot? R. TESTA: It' s one foot instead of five feet. I HAI'RMAN AMAN: And what did you say was right next to it? R. TESTA: It' s residential on both sides but I said there was a 4ix inch encroachment on the next property - by a chimney, so it is � pproximately eighteen inches by six inch encroachment, And there 's ample off-street parking. I CHAIRMAN AMAN: Any questions from the Board? Thank you sir. R. TESTA: Thank you. i. �HAI'RMAN AMAN: Anyone here who wishes to speak. on behalf of the �$equested variance? no one Is there anyone here who opposes it? �I �no one) We' ll call the next case . {I i' i' - 11 - 1 j BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK DECEMBER 7 , 1981 EXECUTIVE SESSION i ' APPEAL NO. 1407 : The Board considered the appeal of Ithaca Neighborhood Housing i ! Services, Inc . for an area variance to permit the use of the house I gat 309 Second Street as a two-family dwelling. The decision of ! the Board was as follows : i jMR. WEAVER: I move that the Board grant the area variance I requested in appeal number 1407 . I I IMS. HAINE: I second the motion. VOTE: S Yes ; 0 No; 1 Recusal Granted ,I F IND TNG OF FACT: I I � 1) The area deficiency was minimal and practical difficulties Ij were shown. I I I i i ii I I it I i �i I i i I I i) !i i� i I II i, II - 12 - �i �I it BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK I; ii DECEMBER 7 , 1981 'I ! SECRETARY HOARD: The next case is appeal number 1408 : Appeal of Lakeview Cemetery for a Special i; Permit under Section 30. 26 to permit the use of the property at the rear of 208 Kline Road for an addition to an existing I' cemetery. The property is located in an R-2a (residential) use district in which a cemetery is a permitted use under a i{ Special Permit from the Board of Zoning i! Appeals. IMR. MARVIN: My name is Ralph Marvin, I 'm the secretary of the i Lakeview Cemetery, I live at 1035 Highland Road and Mr. William � Dobell is the president and he is in the first row. We are asking for a special permit for a small addition to the land at Lakeview Cemetery. This is Lakeview Cemetery (_pointing) East Shore Drive being here, Wyckoff, Kline Road. This is the northern line of the { City of Ithaca right at this point the Village of Cayuga Heights and the Town of Ithaca join at a point right there.. What we are asking to be permitted to use is a small area right in here. The dimensions are approximately 45 x 35, It is bordered as T showed j� you, upon two sides by Lakeview- Cemetery the third side is { by one neighbor who has donated this parcel to us and the fourth ( side by a Mr. Field who is not particularly concerned about its being there or not being there. The access to this parcel is li only through Lakeview Cemetery since it is cut off from Wyckoff Road or from Kline Road by the creek. It is: about between 30 and 40 feet deep at that point . It is no change in the neighborhood i ! since it was bare, unusable land. It will be used for additional buriel ground for approximately twenty-four additional graves . An part of the Ordinance requires that it not be objectionable and it is certain ways in which it will not be objectionable by noise , fumes , vehicular traffic and parking, vibration of flashing lights {land it will not be more objectionable because of those. ! CHAIRMAN AMAN: Have you been in touch with the neighbors pursuant o to . . . I!MR. MARVIN: Yes we did mail a notice to each of the neighbors - Tito Mr. Ceracche , to Mr. Davidson and to Mr. Fields . i i I I - 13 - l ` CHAIRMAN AMAN: And you say Mr. Field didn' t . . . ' MR. MARVIN: He has no objection to it Mr. Davidson is in favor r J I ,, of it . 1i ' MR. ANGELL: Do you have letters from them or did you get a re- I ii kponse? I 1MR. MARVIN: No, no response at a11 . Mr. Davidson is the one who i� ! gave it to us for that purpose. CHAIRMAN AMAN: Deeded the land? IMR. MARVIN: That ' s right . i SECRETARY HOARD: The written response is only required for a ' neighborhood commercial facility. It is not required for the ' other types of Special Permits. '; MR. WEAVER: But notification. . . I HSECRETARY HOARD: Notification is required but not the written i response, ,E CHAIRMAN AMAN: Any questions from the Board? Thank you sir. Is iI there anyone here wishing to speak on behalf of the requested lvariance? (no one) Is there anyone here who opposes it? (no lone) Okay, we' ll call the next case. MR.. MARVrN: Thank you., i Ii I. i i I I� it I I I I� i �I r I� I I I I! i{ it �I li Ij ii { ii - 14 - i I! BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS ii COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK j DECEMBER 7 , 1981 i EXECUTIVE SESSION i I"APPEAL NO. 1408 : I� The Board considered the appeal of Lakeview Cemetery for a Special ;Permit to permit the use of the property at the rear of 208 Kline ;,Road for an addition to an existing cemetery. The decision of the �jBoard was as follows : CHAIRMAN AMAN: I move that the Board grant the special permit �I I requested in appeal number 1408. I ,IMS . HAINE: I second the motion. `VOTE: 6 Yes ; 0 No Granted !FINDINGS OF FACT: �1) The Board finds that the use will be in harmony with. the exist- ing character of the neighborhood. �I surrounding 12) Would not tend to degrade any of the/property uses , i i �j i 1 ii II �i I I I I� i' i I� i i I� i! l BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS j COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK DECEMBER 7 , 1981 SECRETARY HOARD: The next case is appeal number 1409 : Appeal of Gregory and Marjorie Katsoulis for an area variance under Section 30 . 25 , Columns 4 , 7 , 12 and 13 and Section 30.49 to permit the expansion of the existing restaurant at 526 West State Street i' (Zorba' s) . The property is located in a B-2a (business) use district in which a restaurant is a permitted use, however the property is non-conforming in that it is j� deficient in required off-street parking, lot width, and setback for both side yards . A variance was granted for this proposal in May of 1978 (Appeal No. 1197) , but �f construction did not begin within twelve consecutive months , so the variance ex- pired. A similar appeal (No . 1400) was denied by the Board on November 2 , 1981 ; i� the appellant is returning with a proposal !� for off-street parking. MR. STOLP: My name is Robert Stolp and I represent Marjorie and Gred Katsoulis . We have secured parking spaces in adjacent prop- erties to include a total of 32 spaces sixteen of which will be availabe before 5 : 00 o ' clock, and all thirty-two will be available after 5 : 00 o ' clock. Would anyone like to look at these leases? i As far as the five yard setback, there is no side yard on the west side at all, all we are intending to do is fill in a five foot wide alleyway that runs: approximately twenty feet from the back of I the building to a portion of the building that is already abutting the building on the west side. CHAIRMAN AMAN: You own the alleyway? MR. STOLP: That is correct. Well , we are the tenants , we have access to it, ! SECRETARY HOARD: I think one of the things that was confusing on this one last month. was that when they drew the floor plan they I� left out the area that' s occupied by the stairs that go up to the apartment above so it looked like there was a space between +i the restaurant building and the Geological Survey Building to the west , when actually the building -- the Zorba building does run Ifall the way along that line and is against the Geological Survey building. �I i; i I f - 16 - :, MR. STOLP: I think the new plan that we submitted shows the stair i way this time. SECRETARY HOARD: Yes , I was trying to explain what the confusion lwas between last month and this month. MR. WALSH: Bob , I take it the seventeen daytime positions are in I Ithe lot to the east of this building? �IMR. STOLP: Sixteen are being rented fromeracche for after 5 : 00 P.M. Across the street, Cornell Laundry has rented eight to us `land the Sunoco Station which is just up the street has rented eight f! to us also. Those sixteen at Cornell and the Sunoco Station are i !! available all the time - the sixteen right adjacent to the property fare available after 5 : 00 o' clock. IIMR. WALSH: Will those positions be marked by signs indicating ,I their availability for parking - to customers at the restaurant? I I (IMR. STOLP: I assume so . Do you mean, will there be a sign at , the restaurant indicating that the customers can park there? MR. WALSH: And on the areas that are dedicated for parking . . . I1MR. STOLP: We have made no agreement with. the Sunoco station or ii 1with Cornell although I am certain Mr. Ceracche will assign the space if it is required. I should point out that the majority of i Zorba the Greek' s business for breakfast and lunch is a walk-in Iltype business it is not people that drive down. The drivers are it 11mostly people who come in the evening, r! ' MR. WALSH: How long are those leases for Bob? MR. STOLP: They are for a year. h CHAIRMAN AMAN; Any further questions from the Board? Thank you �1 Ivery much. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of I the variance request? (no one) Anyone here who opposes it? (no one) Okay, we' ll call the next case . it SECRETARY HOARD; I will need copies of those lease$ if the vary;- �I lance is granted. i1MR. STOLP: Tomorrow okay or.. . . li jjSECRETARY HOARD: It depends on whether it is granted or not l jj I� 'i i! i; BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK DECEMBER 79 1981 i{ 'i EXECUTIVE SESSION HAPPEAL NO. 1409 : I' The Board considered the appeal of Gregory and Marjorie Katsoulis ii for an area variance to permit the expansion of the existing res- taurant at 526 West State Street (Zorba' s) . The property is jlocated in a B-2a (business) use district in which a restaurant Itis a permitted use , however the property is non-conforming in tha ji it is deficient in required off-street parking, lot width, and lsetback for both side yards . The decision of the Board was as follows: 11MR. WALSH: I move that the Board grant the area variance I ;I requested in appeal number 1409 conditioned upon i' continued showing of lease of at least sixteen parking spaces during the hours ending at 5 : 00 i P.M. and continued lease of total of thirty-two (i � parking spaces during evening business hours . A i Certificate of Occupancy to be granted on an annual basis following presentation of valid leases to the Building Commissioner. ! CHAIRMAN AMAN: I second the motion. i ' VOTE: 6 Yes ; 0 NO Granted w/condition FINDINGS OF FACT; lil) Practical difficulties have been shown with respect to side yard set back requirements . ' 2) The off-street parking arrangements proposed by the applicant meet or exceed the requirements of the Ordinance, i i� ii I I I' I i li - 18 - BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS II COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS Ij CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK I DECEMBER 7 , 1981 11SECRETARY HOARD: The next case is appeal number 1410: �j j Appeal of the Tompkins County Chamber of Commerce for a use variance under Section 30. 25 , Column 2 and 30 . 49 , and an area variance under Section 30. 25 , Columns 4 and 11 to permit the expansion of the of- fice use within the existing structure at Ii 122 West Court Street. The current use is ii a legal non-conforming use in the R-3a {' (residential) use district in which the property is located; variances are require for the expansion of the non-conforming i use and for parking and side yard defi- ciencies . MR. ADAMS: My name is Armand Adams, I 'm here in the capacity of Corporate Secretary of the Chamber of Commerce. With me also , 111in the back of the room, is Duane Winter, who is the president of the Chamber of Commerce. And in a few minutes the chairman of our s , building committee , Mr. DiPasquale will be here. The statement y ; that we presented is a part of our appeal - is pertinent and ;i ! fairly comprehensive, I don't mean to delay things by repeating too much of it - but I want to tell you something of the history Iof this situation, The Chamber of Commerce bought this building at 122 West Court Street in 1972 from Mr. & Mrs . Love . Before the ` bought it they wanted to make sure that they had a variance so tha they could use it for the Chamber of Commerce building so an appli ! cation was made for a variance and the variance was granted to use the property for the business use of the Chamber of Commerce . We isupposed that was all that was required but when we came to a late istage that I will tell you about , Mr. Hoard felt that because it Iwas an extension of the use that perhaps we ought to have a vari- ance and further that the earlier 1972 variance didn't have anythi g � to do with the variation and the area of the lot . But at any rate (! the request now is for either an extension or a continuation of th i ,variance that we had before. We bought the property for $56 ,000 . Before it was purchased it was a condition that if we did have the ' IIvariance and after the variance was obtained, absolutely unlimited Wand not conditioned at all for any use whatsoever for the business !i ii .I Ij - 19 - ! ,! use of the Chamber of Commerce. We put in $19, 000 in improvements +land insulation - not insulation, excuse me - storm windows , roofin , it ,! stairways , parking lights and things of this sort and we have $75, 000. in it . Now at the present time the property is used prin �I !; cipally for the Chamber of Commerce except that on the first floor 11there is a small one-bedroom apartment that is rented and on the IIIsecondfloor there is a three room apartment that is rented. Also ;I i on the second floor there are two small rooms . I think that most iiof you have the diagrams of the present set up and proposed. Now, we need more room. Before spending additional money to even re !; pair the building that was necessary, we felt that it was necessary to have a feasibility study to determine whether it was worthwhile . IAnd so Mr. DiPasquale , who is Chairman of the Buildings Committee M did engage the firm of O'Brien & Taube to make that feasibility study and Mr. Taube is here to support that and you have pages 11 through 17 in front of you - of his report attached to your appeal . We have considered all sorts of alternatives and Mr. Taube will tell you whether we would buy another place, sell this or i what we would do and it seems that it was not feasible - we i couldn' t get our $75 , 000 out of it if we sold it if it were sol i i' for $75 ,000 to someone else and they wanted to keep it within the !� permitted use of the small residential area they couldn't do it i even if they got a multiple use for a residential and had the I original - an older apartment plus four small ones - it would still be prohibitive and in that respect I would pass out copies of I i Ij guess you already have a tabulation of three different figures that use the - indicate the present use in the first column, the i' proposed use in the second column and the third column what would be if we did have even a multiple residential use at one and four If and as you will note , and I should point out that in correction o I the information on the appeal - two figures I would call your at- ittention to changes . On the second page of the typewritten por- tion in the third paragraph we indicate that the current income 11 from the property over and above the space occupied by the Chambe �I is $9,328 . This should be $10, 829. and is confirmed on the state ment that we have just furnished you. In that next paragraph i 20 !j where we indicate the expense of the operation of the apartment , we have the figure of $29 ,775 and that should be corrected to $35 , 860. - other than that , the figures indicated on that state- i ! ment are correct and are broken down in the statement that you hav here. From it you will see that if this property were to be sold and used for residential purposes it would have to warrant an in- come of over $10 a square foot as a rental area and that is i ! absolutely prohibitive in the area where it is located. Similarly i, if we were to use it for the proposed purpose over and above what we would get as rent, also indicated on that same schedule , it would cost us $6 . 78 a square foot for the area which would be I ! occupied by the Chamber, Now I would also like to furnish you with ja letter I received today from Mr. Gesslein of the Citizens Savings ! Bank which support the position. Mr. Gesslein was going to be here but had another conflict on a matter at the Town of Lansing ( tonight and so he has presented his statement in writing, He also ii { confirms the statement that it would not be feasible to have the property used for an apartment house or any type of a residential { area and that the proposal which, we do anticipate and which Mr. 6Taube will talk about is feasible and that the rental figures that ! we have used there which is 18% of additional money and 10% on our Ij ! present equity are fair and reasonable and that if it had to go al { the way and the whole thing be financed, the Savings Bank would consider financing to the extent of 75% , Now I think at this stag jwith having furnished that information, I will let Mr . Taube carry i ! on - I would point out that, as you need to know, that we did sery i the letter and notice on all the people in addition to the list I gave you first, the two most important ones right next door were missed when we sent the notice at the time. And I have heard noth i �ling unfavorable from anybody, in fact, Mrs . Carey who is the next i± door neighbor called and she was very much in favor of the opera ( tion continuing as it is and used for the business purposes of i 1! th,e Chamber, So I ' ll let Mr. Taube carry on from there. '! MR. WALSH: Mr. Adams, just before you head off, do you have a cop of I assume we have it some place in the records - the original �f II �I - 21 - 'i j appeal that was presented in 1972? MR. ADAMS: I have the copy that Mr. Hoard had. Mr. Thaler of i' i! your office - the one that presented it at that time , but I do have a copy. i �i MR. WALSH: Do you have a copy- of the application - the decision - and any transcript of that? SECRETARY HOARD: At that time they didn't do the transcript the way we do it. i �i MR. WALSH: Well we do have that available though? I' SECRETARY HOARD: All that had been (unintelligible) MR. WALSH: Do I understand correctly to be implied that the vari- ance granted previously covered what you chose to . . . MR. ADAMS : The request was for a variance in column 2 and it didn't spell out as to whether it was going to be limited wheth r I we had to have all business we have continued as it were two li apartments so they were continued there , We don't want to be bound to have to continue them forever because we know that with some planned expansions of the Chamber business we probably will have to have more room and even take over some of the second floo i3 operation. Certainly the first floor we need now and have to get I rid of the one apartment . We don't want to be limited to saying that when you are going to have $168 ,000 in a building you can't i' use it for the use for which it was intended. Now- it is true tha the variance that was requested in 72 Just barely asked for a change to commit that column 2 variation without saying what they S were limited to. There was no area variance but on that I should point out that we probably do need an area variance for the front �j yard - if it wasn 't granted then because w ,th, the porch which is a part of the very attractive location and design architectural design of the building, we are only eight feet from the roadway where we should be ten, So if we were to take off the porch it I� would ruin the whole architecture of the house . In the back we I! are presently occupying eight spaces for parking and we can't j (changed tape here) be twelve and we are presently using it I� j all we need and we have only - of the eight spaces , we are only I occupying five of them and three of them are available for people I� 22 - that would come in for a conference during the day or something of i isi that short so we have more than we need and we have had for nine i is years . But we don' t anticipate that there will be any more traffi as a result of having more room that would come in and require ii parking. !' MR. WALSH: Okay. But it is clear that some extension of - or j; some new variance is required this evening , rather than merely. . . i CMR. ADAMS: 1 think this is true because we are asking for alter- ilations to the third floor and V m not sure whether it is necessary i IIto convert what was an apartment to an office space but if it is , �jthen we are asking for it . We want to be sure that we get it so I� that we are not going to have $168 ,000 in a building that we can't 111use. T' 11 let Mr. Taube speak. ii (i ( MR. TAUBE: T just want to briefly add that the study that we were ` commissioned to do for the Chamber showed us that they had serious space needs for their particular operation and in addition to other ! major items they were not getting the income out of the space that �iwas being rented that they could. The apartments have a tendency to net less income than office space, And the third major factor lis simply that there were very major improvements that had to be I�made to the building, among those is somewhat of a catch 22 situa- tion with wood siding, which we wanted to maintain and the paint is constantly pe.eli.ng off - this is being caused by leaking roofs we have to repair the roof before we can repaint the building Iso that it won't peel off again within a year and at the same time i we would want to insulate the building at the time we do the �1painting which means drilling holes and blowing in insulation, 'That, along with_ a one pipe steam heating system; which is anti �I quated. In the middle of winter we find windows open to try and balance the heat in a very sophi,sti.cated fashion - we end up with upwards of $43, OOO worth of repairs, Our heating system alone is an estimated with the help of local contractors - around $18 ,000, the roof, side work, we want to repaint the entire building - re- i 'paint the porch_, refinish it, restore it in fact, and we pointed Out to the Chamber at this time that it is very difficult to justi- iffy $43, 000 worth of repair work on top of $75 , 000. worth of buildin I i� I; i! 23 - I without trying to balance, somehow, the income from the other j tenants . At the same time , the Chamber needed more square footage and what we attempted to show in the original report and what ii Armand Adams has further shown on this sheet is the net square footage that the Chamber would ultimately be using would increase jjwe are trying then also to increase somewhat the income so that I' somehow we can bring the effective cost for the Chamber space dow i to something that is reasonable within the Ithaca area. You must somehow make this equasion. The residential use becomes an obses- iI t sive rehab it if could be sold to somebody as a multiple dwelling i' �i in that we would have to put in all new bathrooms and kitchens an i, those items alone throw the cost somewhat out of line with respect , again to the potential return you could make on apartments . Now, li as presently shown and based upon the Chambers needs and its open- it ation, the first floor apartment which is in the rear, would be �{ used for expansion of the Chambers operations on the first floor. It would not increase the. number of employees , at least as present - ly, resen -ly planned, because it' s elbow room. It is also bringing up some storage that is being used in the basement now for pamphlets , etc, that has to be accessible five or six times a day. It pro i vides what we call a machine room which is the copy xoom, collato , I (i sorter, that i,s used by the Chamber as well as its members if it is more accessible and more readily available for use by members , Ij again the Chamber can help offset some of its other costs, The second floor which has been office rental - we would be proposing to remain office rental and have the opportunity to take the I! �i second door apartment and also use that for office . It would I; �I become a small suite with a separate exit , ,And in the attic, It which. is a very large unused space, could be converted to a con- ference room that is desperately needed by the Chamber for their meetings and Mr. Hoard can confirm this, but we had looked into i the requirements for the building code and discussed those with. ii Mr , Hoar.-d and feel that we can meet the building code requirement I� for exiting, etc. On a preliminary basis we would have to get into construction documents certainly, We would also be providin i' i !I ! 24 - ! ;wwith that exit - which would be out the rear of the building - and !not in any way conflict with the historic nature of the front of t e ;;building - give us yet another exit from the second floor which would further improve the fire exit. That would give us , in effect , i! , three exits from the second floor and two from the third floor. D i; 11you have any questions? One other point and that was brought up at the Planning Board session regarding the parking - I think it ! is important to note that we have eight right now, As was mentioned, " fourteen is determined to be required by Mr . Hoard; there have bee to the best of our knowledge, over the past years no problems with parking and I don't believe any response was received from ; home owners within that 200 ' radius regarding this matter . If we 'I 'converted entirely to office we would only be required to have two i !Imore spaces that is presently required.. If we converted to - let ' ;say one apartment and the rest office, we would be required to have I !fifteen spaces so the change entirely to office is only an increas s lof two spaces from presently what would be required of fourteen, t ;sixteen. We have eight and we apparently have never had any prob- lem, with the eight - yet we are proposing to show a two car in- crease which would, in effect, take care of that increase of the i additional office space., So the Planning Board, again, I believe I don't know if it is in the report - seem to agree that this was i not going to be of concern, i.MR. WALSH: You do propose to go to ten parking spaces? IMR. TAUBE; We can add the other two spaces in the rear. The oth r !jpoint that was addressed by the Planning Board and I think showed isome concern R there was a twoTtwo vote and I think it is very i; important to realize what is in the minutes _ that the two negative ivotes were directed not at the expansion of office space as such, but at a preference to maintain at least one apartment in there. ! And again, I wish to point out that certainly the building the !i primary use of the building and the obvious use of the building is for office for the Chamber function. I also think it is fair to �i ;state that there is some disagreement between what the Planning Board would like to see with respect to a mixed use and with what j i i 25 - Ithe Building Department would like to see regarding single occupan- i;cies . Whether it be a safety issue or life safety issue - or not . ,,Our concern in the past has been particularly with a single apart- i ' ment - you do present certain hazards to an entire building - with Ione apartment - one kitchen, let 's say. We also don't believe that :,the character that ' s already been established by the Chamber opera- Ij ;tion over the years is going to change because two apartments have �Ibeen eliminated. I think they presented themselves already in the I! �i past as excellent neighbor to the rest of the community, ( SECRETARY HOARD; Dave, I have a memo from ,Ton Meigs representing Ithaca Landmarks preservation Commission and one of the things that ; they, are concerned about is that any approval by the Board include ` the condition that the review and approval specified by the Land- arks Ordinance, Section 32 , 6 , be completed prior to issuance of a { building permit. Do you have objection to that? R. TAUBE; No, we received a copy of the memo and there are two ,points being raised. One point was with respect to what type of {insulation we would be using although I go on record as saying Ithat I don't know if that 's an appropriate concern of the Commis I si.on. We would get some gerbils to shred it up for us . Their concern, primarily, is one , that the proper insulation material e used so that again in two years we don' t have something that Vbsorbs moisture that could conceivably start the paint peeling again and certainly the Chamber doesn't want to see that either, we re trying to avoid the issue of paint peeling, The other point that the Commission has brought up is with respect to the type of kylight that was proposed over the conference room. The building s very interesting one - it is not noticeable but the roof which ,looks like a hip roof r, flattens out at the top at about 8 x 6 1 !foot square and it i.s suddenly a flat portion. It leaks somewhat I ight now we feel skylights which always leak - it would be icer to have the leaky skylight than the leaky flat roof but it i lso would really brighten R really a beautiful space it 's a very gh ceilinged large space and T discussed with Jon Meigs the bought that we would be going with a simple pyramid shaped skylight N i� !i �i I 26 - i i'which would continue the lines of the roof and he thought that was okay and that was our intention all along but we would be present- ii Iing that to the Commission along with the shredded newspapers . SECRETARY HOARD: So it would be illuminated at night , right? i �MR. TAUBE: If there were lights on, yes . It would be very nice. I am sure I could find historical context for it . I SMR. WEAVER: No one voted for a widow' s walk? i (iMR. TAUBE: No, I don' t even know - it could have been there at on time. No that would probably constitute a fourth story and we 'd have !to get a variance for that. Are there any questions? MR. WALSH: Mine just goes to Mr. Adams , I think. ` MR. ADAMS: I point out that of the neighbors we've heard from none of them except the Carey' s and they were very much in favor. They said we could present their approval - they are the very next door neighbor - the Carey' s themselves but the rest of them - I haven' t heard from any one of them either for or against . MR. WALSH: To the extent a use variance is required, is the basis of the appeal economic hardship based on the proposed conversion to a residential structure? SMR. ADAMS: Very definitely and the fact that even as it is now - i�ith the limitation, if there was a limitation on the 1972 thing (that we would have to have the apartments in there that in itself is a hardship. We need the flexibility of having the full use of the building for Chamber purposes, Now it isn' t too important that - we do the upstairs there is one room rental apartment and one two room rental apartment., The rent is nominal on them but �they are similar type of things we aren't going out and run a business block and compete with First National or anyone else for space but the use is conducive and we do expect that over the years e' 11 have more. For instance, if we do get into this room fee �hing n it will expand the work a great deal and we' ll have to ave more space for that and that 's the type of thing that we don't Lant to - if we are going to have to put any money in another place ile want to know it now because we are going to have to put in 1$93, 000 to do What we want to do and we don't want to waste it. l� i - 27 - i iIAR. TAUBE: Just to kind of expand on that point , the study that w 'i jihad done - it wasn' t until we were into the study that it was even ;"discovered that there was an issue with the zoning. The original ,1study showed that the expansion was needed - the cost for improve- i !Iments themselves were needed but at the end of a study a compariso Lasdone between renovation of the existing structure vs new con- struction vs the purchase of a similar wood frame building and 1 renovating that and because we are dealing with 8% mortgages and i money that was much cheaper - that study alone already showed that we could not afford to get the same amount of square footage that ' needed for the operation elsewhere without paying an exhorbitant li equivalent per square foot cost. So that was done before the issu `ever came up and then the set of figures that Armand just presented �fyou really was an extension to begin examining exactly what the I ( building could be used for if we were forced into selling it. As Iiit stands now, it at least appears, in my opinion specifically, if we could not get the expanded space certainly the Chamber can't " perform its function - they should not be spending the money to fi Ithe building up because I 'm not even sure the dollars are there i without the offsetting capitalized value of income from the in I ; creased rents. MR. ADAMS: 1 didn't repeat all the material that is on pages 1 , 2 and 3 that is included with the appeal - but with the two correc tions T think most of it is in and this other table supports the I thing and also the statement from Mr. Gesslein as to the - he says that we could have maybe rent it if we wanted maybe a high density student rental but T don' t think that the Planning Board or the other group would be interested in that at all , Mr, DiPasquale MR, ANGELL I 'm not completely sure on how many rental offices you have proposed here, MR, TAUBE: The plans will show you on what's numbered there as 11�' second floor, page 15. We are showing space 9 and 10 as currently rental office and that would remain rental , Space 11 is currently i Il rental and that would remain. Space 12 is presently the conferenc ' room for the Chamber of Commerce and is just simply too small and i, that we would want to convert to office and then 13 , 14 and 1S �i II I! 28 '!which is a one-bedroom apartment suite we would like to all be mad jinto an office suite - so those are the only two additions in spac i ,I 12 and the apartment. Downstairs on the first floor everything is ! Chamber activity right now with the exception of - from space num- 1ber 7 back and there are two drawings - one shows the existing an i' I,the other shows the proposed so we are only adding space number 12 l !!for office rental and then the suite 13 , 14 and 15 as office rent 1 . I 1I,MR. WALSH: The building in its present condition could not be use +throughout for residential purposes? ( MR. ADAMS: There are fourteen rooms and with a lot of pantries an storage rooms and old, old-fashioned kitchens and old, old-fashionEd 11bathrooms and it would take considerable to convert it even if you i were to have the two apartments it would be practically - we would 'ihave to do all the repairs , $45 ,000 and it would take practically I ( all the repairs with the exception of about $20 , 000 if we - instead Ilof it being $40, 000 for repairs and $10 , 000 a piece for bathrooms !and kitchens , it would only be two. Even the downstairs would hav I jto be made into a good kitchen and a good bathroom - it' s just a futility room now for when they make coffee for a group that is the e. , It is not a real kitchen, it is not a real bath either place, up I or down. IMR. TAUBE: All of them are in disrepair anyway we have shown I`across the board, whatever we do for the new offices that we had lalready made recommendations that the bathrooms have to be up-gradEd jjust for the office or if the apartments were to remain apartments lBut the kitchens themselves , most of it is probably forty - fifty II f years old and really needs help. IIIIMR. WEAVER: This is a residential neighborhood, zoned as such, T Siam aware that quite a number of large residences are your immediat 1Ineighbors . It seems to me that your argument supports the need fo �1rezoning as an economic need for the use of any of those large homes. I IMR, ADAMS: If z may answer that Chief R I would say this , that this lilis the largest house in the area there aren't many of them that i. I I have the fourteen rooms, Next door, ,lean Durhamts or Stanley Shaw s are not anywhere as near as large - this is exceptionally large fo i 29 - 'the area. Further than that, of course, we have the problem of ;having already gone through the question of hardship for the one ,use - nine years ago - and it 's coming back to haunt us now - is iwhat the grant was then because we put in $75 ,000 already. �I iNIR. WEAVER: What I 'm hearing it seems to me without checking your �f Iifigures, is that you really are not - the Chamber of Commerce I I1doesn' t really propose to have ignoring the attic conversion - (does not propose to have substantially more space than it now occupies - it merely wants to convert rental space to higher rate �irental -space. 1MR. TAUBE: No , no it would have considerably more space. No, it again, if you look at page 12 , first floor plan existing - right Ijnow we have, within just that first floor, front rectangle the ( various offices - Director of Administrative Assistant, etc . , 'Tourism, Assistant Director of Private Industry Council with the ; apartment in the rear. If you turn the page then - and look at th 'proposed plan, that entire floor then becomes Chamber operation , mind you, for some purposes we have to separate private industry i counciling and tourism because they are Chamber related activities but they provide an income they pay their own way. So what we iare trying to do is give that additional space to the Chamber so i that is not rental that entire addition there of 400 some odd square feet is all Chamber and again right now, space number five, 11Ifor example, all the machinery the collating machine and the i i folding machine are tucked away in that area which is basically a dead storage zone and because of its use it inaccessible. So again, if we are able to convert space seven to a copy room, i ! it not only will be convenient for the use but it will be used - i this is the important point - is being able to use the machinery, ,I office machinery you need the proper space - space I p p p five then 11becomes a very nice office with some help, granted. It is d it a ark space right now it could be. used for that private industry coun- Js h cil operation, So again the: only expansion for the office rental it as such, is again that one space upstairs , twelve, plus the second i, floor apartment - the rest already has been rental space, I 'm I! I' - 30 - ii porry, space number nine - there are two number nines - the one toward the top of the page right now has been used as dead storage i ipy just basically everybody on that floor I believe. '�IR. WALSH: Is it your opinion Mr. Taube, as an architect and one � ho has presided over this feasibility study, that the building as 't is presently constituted, would not be feasible generally for esidential occupancy? n �R. TAUBE: I couldn' t recommend it from the total picture as we ii ��ooked at it which is not just the architectural but the financial ierformance which is part of the service we were providing . The I tuilding - the front of the building is of a shape and configuratioli i Duch that it is difficult not to lose the square footage to circula- tion. Now we have a structural system which creates a very wide i ��entral hallway which is too wide for circulation but also too nar- l�ow to create into something else without getting into extremely expensive structural changes . So in looking at the analysis , we Don' t see any way without, again, pumping the cost up to start aini,ng square footage back. because unlike office space which you Ian rent directly on a per square foot basis , the apartment is a ttle bit more of your gut feeling, you've got a two-bedroom apart i 1� ent with a nice view nice kitchen, etc. you can rent for a certa n I .mount and when we establish these rental figures for these apart- �nents we check these costs with Jim Gardner who handles a great dea If commercial real estate - apartments and he felt that these were reasonable rents that could be obtained from these size apartments . f we were to be able to steal an extra fifty feet from the corridor �or an apartment that doesn't mean that we are going to get an extra Oix or seven dollars a, square foot so the configuration itself, I ,I ,4on't feel lends itself appropriately, in fact , on the first floor ii ,t becomes Very, difficult to get two useable apartments as opposed ii 1 o one oversized apartment and that' s one of the conflicts that we dace there. i� MR, WALSH.: So itis your opinion basically from this that even if ne were to attempt to make an exclusively residential property out �f this, i.t would not be financially feasible to convert it and I, i' i; - 31 - ,ado it that way? ,IR. TAUBE: Not unless it were student housing because numerous !clients of ours are, more so in Collegetown, are looking at student I' ;housing and the amount you can get - you are getting it per bed or jper room, but when you convert that to a square foot cost , it is fi uch greater than for a normal apartment with a single person or I�two people. T would not recommend even doing this but you can con- ceivably, as was stated, put in an awful lot of people and that ' s I Ihot the intent here, There are really fine spaces within this ;building, too, that lend themselves nicely to office , which don' t (i lend themselves to residential other than its original use which i� Baas the large parlor or the large living room and large dining room and to try and cut them up, in fact what we are recommending to the hamber was to get rid of some of the partitions that they put in i h.ich was intended to make smaller offices , cut the spaces down and III think in hindsight , has somewhat hurt them because they now have series of small spaces that are too tight to operate in, �OR- ANGELL; Am I right in that the difference in the rental of `that apartment area would only be $60 , 00 a month? Second floor. �OR. TAUBE: Second floor? We showed $395, 58 which is correct for Ijthe office vs $300, 00 - that' s right. And the $300, 00 figure works j II; Out to approximately, it gets close - all the apartment rents are 1. youthe neighborhood of $5 . 50- to $6. 00 a square foot if you were to ork it backwards which is: basically the market downtown if you �egin taking apartments rn trying to determine them on a per square oot basis. iR. ANGELL; And that would be without any renovation and I assume �,ou would have to do some renovating if you're going to make that into office 'space. � R. TAUBE: Both , right, I'f we were to put in the apartment we re talking about kitchen and bath plus finishes, If we are convey �i ng office we would be improving we are not putting in a new i� itchen but we would also be putting in finishes but where we 've of an extra 90 i' i' E II 32 - IMR. ANGELL: Well is this thing rental? I IMR. TAUBE: No, existing rental right now for the apartment is i 11$241 . 50. 'MR. ANGELL: And the proposed rental would be $395. if it was . . IMR. TAUBE: For offices - for business. !!MR. ANGELL: Well then what does this $300. figure over there . . . I 1MR. TAUBE: On the right - the third column that is what we are ,!anticipating being generous in assuming that possibly we could Oet $300. a month for an apartment if you do make the improvements iso it would be $60. 00 more a month than is being obtained now. The if key factor there is the comparison within that column - in that to achieve the $300. 00 you put in more to improve the space than you flhave for the office to achieve $395. 00. And that ' s where your income becomes greater and you are able to offset the high Chamber I I costs for their space. I R. ANGELL: In order to rerent this apartment it would have to be iI 1upgraded? SMR. TAUBE: To get $300. a, month it would have to be upgraded, I j R. ANGELL: And if it were left as it is you could still get $241 . dor whatever. . . MR. TAUBE, Right I'm sure we can increase it maybe 10% , IMR. ANGELL: 10% would damned near give you $300. 00 but - and you I, are very much against leaving it as an apartment is that . . , MR. TAUBE: Well the Chamber would like the flexibility to be able , to convert it, Right now I think within the entire scope of things i � I would be recommending that the Chamber phase a portion of the work Viand part of the reason is we are dealing with a very very large sum Ilof money for the improvements, We 'd like , . . MR. ANGELL: Would the Chamber go along with that? IMR, TAUBE: Yes we would like to have the option to do it and we , would leave it for a period of time . , , . ! MR, ANGELL: You want a variance now to include that apartment area? IMR, TAUBE, Yes we would like that flexibility. Clearly and T think Ilyou can see just iln the operation, it's the first floor apartment !!that is most critical to the Chamber operation so that they have t ii � i i 33 - ! i! Ijexpansion on the first floor and I think this is where the Plannin �; ; Board entered its discussion and suggested that or two - it split i; '! votes - suggested that the second floor apartment might remain res - I=, Idential. MR. ANGELL: Would the Chamber go along with that? I� I`MR. TAUBE: I think if there were no choice we could probably live �1with it. We are not going to get the income that we would like i sand it would cramp our style as far as being able to be flexible iI ( in the future, SMR. ADAMS: And there is some question about the mixed use if you ! have both business in there and the residential together you would !`need a little more fire protection than the kitchen in the apartment '' than in the other place and things of this sort. IMR. ANGELL: Youlve left the kitchens in, in the plan when you I (, change it to rental suite? (IMR. ADAMS: Right but they are not going to have too much to fix I those kitchens up for coffee clutch, MR. ANGELL: That doesn' t change the . . . MR, TAUBE: No we would not be leaving the stoves in, The kitchen II ! right now that is, being used by the Chamber facility is a sink, �la refrigerator and a separate coffee maker -, that's really all tha lis intended for the office use. �JMR. ANGELL That 's a lot of space for that. � MR. TAUBE: They have to have coffee in the morning. ! CHAIRMAN AMAN: How many tenants do you have in there? l�MR. TAUBE- Presently there are two apartment tenants in the rear I +done on each floor. And there are two office tenants on the second i i floor. ! CHAIRMAN AMAN: Two residential? 111MR. TAUBE: Right, so what we would be asking for ultimately is , !! instead of two and two, is four office . IMR. ANGELL: What you are saying now then - you could live with it 1if there was a contingency requiring that one apartment shall re- main? IMR. ADAMS: Yes we could live with it again we 'd like the flexr 1bility we 'd hate to come back we do know that we are going to have Ir 34 - i!an expansion if the rent tax comes into the picture - we might nee 1more room but we are not going to evict the person on the second 11floor right away - anyway - as David says , we don' t have the money to do all of this right at one turn, even though we are talking ilabout the financing that way and it might be two or three or four I ilyears before that second apartment would go out but we did - would filthink that in three or four years time it would need to go out and it' s a question as to whether we need to come back for a variance i with the same problem that we had before that we don't know what we we thought we had it all taken care of nine years ago and we , didn' t and we don' t want to have the thing (unintelligible) up now. II think maybe Mr. DiPasquale might be able - he is the chairman of , this committee he might be able to develop on that a little bit j ore - as far as what some of the plans are if you would like to ave him. I �R. DI PASQUALE: Gentlemen. Only a few words , I've been involved l! ith the Chamber of Commerce for over fifteen years. I 'm Ray iPasq,uale , past president of the Chamber of Commerce , local citize land businessman. I 've been involved with the Chamber of Commerce I 1 ver fifteen years - I 've seen it grow from what it was on Green I!Street when it was right next to the funeral parlor there - I ��an' t remember Bangs. And I was involved with the Chamber when t was - decided to purchase the property on Court Street. The hamber has been a very significant part of this community, there i o question about it and we 've come to the point right now where 'm involved with the buildings and properties committee and we 've ecided that we really had to do something about revamping and re- modeling the building because first of all it needs repair and Isecondly the Chamber is growing so it needs more space so that ' s hen we decided to engage the services of O'Brien & Taube to make his feasibility, study to decide what our needs were and what the �hysical plant that we had was available to meet the needs and hat 's when we got involved with this whole problem to begin with - 3 of a problem but the whole process and 1 am here to appeal to the oning Board to indicate that first of all there will be no physical �i 'h.a;nge to the building so that it won 't look any different than it I i; I 35 - I, (does right now. It has been a very significant part of the commun- 1ity - it has been a good citizen where it is and nothing will change . i !,There will be a fire stair in the back - that ' s about it. We need ' more space because we are growing we are doing more - which mean that we have to have more people and more space to do it and that ' the whole thing that prompted our committee of Buildings and (Property to look first of all at how we can repair the building Land make it more viable for our own needs, and meet the energy re- quirements and satisfy those requirements - those situations and i !so I am here to appeal to try, to help you realize that what we are doing is something significant and we need your blessing to make i possible because of the fact that I think that we are performing a very viable service in the community and it will not change the Ilcharacter of the neighborhood at all , So from all outward appear- ances it will look the same as it always has. There will be just , gutting more of the inside, using more of the space that is there right now for our own needs and purposes . So I ' ll throw that in �for our own . . . 4MR. WTLCOX1 What are current mortgage rates? MR. ADAMS; With the commitment that we have with the Citizens Savings not a commitment but the consideration is on the - if we ,k.eep our present mortgage is 8 that we 've got for $37 ,000 at 80 Inow, If we take a second mortgage - then that would be at 18% . But if they had to refinance the whole thing then it would be about 1162 and it would still be very we are better off if we can keep our $37 , 000. at 8% and put on the new- money at 45% at 16. �JBut if we had to go out and buy a new building then or something of that sort, then we would have to pay 162 and it would be buried that ' s what T think is indicated - or at least implied IMR. WTLCOX: You mean your own Chamber of Commerce which represent Ball the businesses in Ithaca has to borrow at 18%? SMR. ADAMS; Well you read Mr. Gesslei.n' s letter that we passed i around , . IiMR. TAUBE; That 's if the banks are willing to argue over who gets �I the 1It they aren' t MR. ADAMS; We 'd hope we 'd get a little better but th ' of �� g 9 ,i i 36 - i' :Ito commit themselves in advance too much. We ' ll shop around. ? MR. WALSH: You do have a good record for payment I assume? ,MR. ADAMS: Yes. We have had to have - we had originally a $30,00 !,'mortgage when we bought it in 56 and we 've had a $10 , 000 loan and ii 'a $9, 000 loan for repairs - one is of the building though - but it is still at 8% . I think the last home loan was 11 . IMR. WILCOX: If interest rates were say 12% - how would that change I 1the proforma, would you . . . would one of the others be more advan Itageous or would it not change? E MR. ADAMS: Oh we would still have be better off if we had our ; full use for business purposes and could raise the rent for business use and get the full use that we would certainly if it were sold to someone else and they had it for an apartment we aren' t going Ito run an apartment house there ourselves but if we have to sell it and buy somewhere else - we 'd use that third column that ' s just by way of detail . At present I would point out that the lavearage down at the bottom - the first two columns are the costs Ilto the Chamber at so much per square foot whereas the third column Iis not the cost to the Chamber but it is the average cost for the iwhole expenditure that would have to be amortized when you come to that - so it is really an expense rather than a cost . Do any of you want to add anything to . , � MR, W'ILCQX; T think it has been covered very nicely, CHAIRMAN AMAN: Any further questions from the Board? Thank you Ilvery much Mr. Adams. Anyone else wishing to speak on behalf of 'Ithe variance request? (no one) Ts there anyone here who wishes oto speak in opposition?' (no one) Okay, we'11 call the next case . I i! I I J i1 I� i( f, ii 37 - li I j! BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK I II DECEMBER 71, 1981 EXECUTIVE SESSION RPEAL NO. 1410: he Board considered the appeal of Tompkins County Chamber of Com- i j erce for use and area variances to permit the expansion of the $ffice use within the existing structure at 122 West Court Street. '1 '�he decision of the Board was as follows ; SIR. WALSH: The Board finds as fact that 1) the variance that was granted in 1972 was a use variance for the premises ; 0 I 2) that the Ordinance does not permit the extension 1 without a variance, of a non-conforming use beyond the structure for which it is granted; that therefore i! the variance granted in 1972 , unlimited by the terms li of the grant, was for the entire structure; therefore I a further use variance is not required in this in- i! ii stance ; and 3) however, an area variance for the expansion of the use may be required by virtue of a i! l• deficiency in off-street parking, There was testimony i from the appellant that the present demand for parkin IIfrom the residents of the structure is less than the amount provided and that the uses sought to be made I� of the premises will impose a parking demand for fewe i spaces than the appellant indicates can be provided. The petiiti.oners propose to add two parking spaces to those that presently: exist, Although the ten spaces proposed do not satisfy the requirements, they are I sufficient to meet the needs generated bye the propose I it use of the building, i CHAIRMAN AMAN: I second the motion, I OTE: 3 Yes ; 3 No The motion failed by a vote of 3 3; therefore the. requested variance is denied. I i i i jl ii i i - 38 - j it I BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK I DECEMBER 7, 1981 i; s �i SECRETARY HOARD: The next case Mr. Chairman is appeal number 1411 : Appeal of Harold Wallace and Marvin Freed- man for an interpretation or a use variance under Section 30. 25 , Column 2 to permit the use of the property at 622 Cascadilla Street for a self-storage business . The use appears to fall under the warehouse j; classification, which is not a permitted use in the B-2a (business) use zone in it which the property is located. The appel- lants are asking for an interpretation that the self-storage operation contem- plated is not the same as a warehousing operation; in lieu of a favorable inter- pretation they are requesting a use vari- j ance. ,1 MR. WALLACE: My name is Neil Wallace and I represent Harold Walla :e !land Marvin Freedman of the partnership proposing to build this i; I I! retail facility. I have a memorandum of statement of fact which f� I want to pass out. When we first brought this proposal before , the Building Commissioner we were told that it was not a permitted I use of the zoning because it constituted, in their view, bulk i ( storage. We asked them for a definition of bulk storage and they ' couldn't give it to us except that it was not permitted in a retail and commercial facility. WE felt at that time that the renting of small spaces to the public certainly was a retailing operation, a ;! retail service operation - did not constitute bulk storage and i� 11certainly not a wholesale warehousing in any stretch of the imagin i lation. As the memorandum indicates , the law requires that zoning i language be given a very strict construction and that if there is I any ambiguity or question as to what words mean and what the defin I . tions are they must be construed in favor of the property owner i` land against the Municipality who drafted them. We would urge, �Ifirst of all , the Board to adopt that well settled document in ilinterpreting the definition of bulk storage or warehousing in that ( sense. We are allowed, in the current - that ' s an artist renditio �, of what the structure with the planting around it , will look like ii right now, we are allowed, in a Bn2a zone , to build a commercial l i i �i i - 39 - service facility. We could, for example, build a mini-market , we �i ; could build a used furniture and clothing outlet - we could even I build this structure exactly as it is with larger spaces and rent them to people who would then sell furniture - almost like a flea 11 market and really have the exact same kind of structure as we have right there now in terms of the visual or aesthetic impact on the !i area. We don't want to do that . But clearly in terms of the interpretation, it seems to me, when we look at the I-1 zone which allows "bulk storage" or wholesale , we don' t have any relationship to wholesale storage here nor is there any industrial relationship i - it is clearly a retail service facility as such it is our vie Ithat the interpretation of the Building Commissioner is inappro- priate and in our judgement the zoning as presently allowed ought fto allow this structure . If the Board of Appeals rejects this argument and indicates that it feels the interpretation of the Building Commissioner, as defining bulk storage whatever that definition is _ is appropriate then we would urge a variance be j granted because it is our feeling that the structure facility which is being considered and proposed by the petitioner would have a lesser impact than permitted uses, In listening to the arguments both- of the Planning Commission and some individuals who live nearby, - the arguments that I heard were arguments that could be used against any facility built there and it seems to me that it i_s very important to recognize those arguments. For example , if the argument was that we don' t want the building on that side, clearly that argument is not viable because we are permitted to have a building on that side , so T think it is important to deter- mine the validity of i,t , And as such, we are asking, perhaps under a more novel request, in that wallet is certainly permis- sible for this Board to prohibit structures - not grant a varianc for aesthetic reasons - we would ask that this Board grant a variance , if the interpretation is considered appropriate , for aesthetic reasons, because the alternative to this proposed facil- ity, in our judgement, would have a greater negative environmental impact in the area than this structure would and we considered i - 40 - ii that when we considered what kind of economic use we are going to i, j put the land to. We are going to use it for some economic benefit iE !I - the way the economy is today, there is a very strong necessity to do that - as most small businesses nowadays are in trouble - so we are going to develop it and we hope that this Board will Il agree that this development would have the least environmental and aesthetic impact than other clearly permitted uses . ,g ICHAIRMAN AMAN: But if we did have to grant use variance we have i to grant it on economic evidence and I take it, that, as you say, this property can be used in various ways - many of them I imagine would provide an economic return. � MR. WALLACE: We have experience with this kind of facility - we have one on Clinton Street.. There is very little traffic - no problems with it. We obviously feel that we can make money with , this. While T assume we would feel that we could make money with anything else that we built we are confident that we can make money with this . Anything else is a question that would require i further study and investigation. We 've r we think we 've got a guarantee with this - we certainly wouldn't build anything that would lose money. IM,R, WALSH; Mr. Wallace, the kinds of storage that are contemplate I lin this facility, who would store goods in this place? { MR. WALLACE: Our experience with the other facility, which is jlexactlys the same kind of facility, is individuals, basically storing furniture - chairs , sofas, their moving MR. WALSH: Household goods , generally? I MR. WALLACE: Household goods generally, yes . Any hazardous explosives they are all prohibited by the lease agreement - the rental agreement. MR. WALSH Are the units in which the storage would take place , !; clearly sealed, one from another? MR. WALLACE: Yes . i I I MR. WALSH: By . . . '� MR. WALLACE; The concrete. You have . . . (` MR. WALSH: I mean, there are block walls between these units? 11MR. WALLACE: Yes , right. I i j - 41 - i MR. WALSH: And are each of these units put on a lease basis or how are they rented? I; MR. WALLACE: It' s a month to month rental . �i MR. WALSH: Who controls the space themselves? I� MR. WALLACE: Both the individual renting the space and we have a j; C key - the only two individuals. We have a key because we fumigate i{ I; twice a month. iCHAIRMAN AMAN: Now how do you limit what goes into the storage? How do you keep it to just furniture or household goods? J MR. WALLACE: The rental agreement forbids all dangerous or flam- mable materials , perishable goods those things that could pose a hazard. We don' t provide insurance for those goods though. The people who rent the spaces are responsible for their own insurance. j If you ask do we go in and check twice a week to make sure that those goods - we have not done that we are certainly allowed to under the rental agreement - well we do when we go in twice a i I month to fumigate, actually, when I think of it . MR. WEAVER: The details of your application include enough on the building so that only the maximum open space for one single rental . MR. WALLACE: 10' x 15 ' , MR. WEAVER: That 's the largest? MR. WALLACE: That ' s the largest and I think it i.s about eight fee high. i MR. WEAVER: Co back to the separation between occupancies . Is that a flame separation - in other words , does it go all the way to the roof? When you fumigate do you have to go in each space or !, do you have some accommodation through there? MR, WALLACE. I think. we have to go into each space , but I am not ` sure . MR. WALSH: Does the proposed use differ in any particular way i from the kind of storage that would be done by - say Mayflower Warehouses? fMR. WALLACE: Oh sure. We have the same type of warehouse, also - 1iin back of Purity. That, in my judgement , constitute wholesale or storage of goods. That kind of storage requires heavy equip- �Ibulk jment to move. You are going to see trucks and vans pulling up and Ij Ij 42 - !I �i �i and pulling out making a lot of noise. Entirely different here i' because you've got very small amounts of goods by private citizens ii '! who are basically transporting in their cars - to come in and out �i so it' s an entirely different kind of operation vs the kind of large warehouse that we have also that we have experience in and w i rent to Ithaca Gun and NCR and rent it to SPINNEY. . . MR. WALSH: You are not suggesting that whether it' s bulk storage I i� or otherwise depends on the particular mode of transportation used i� to get it there? MR. WALLACE: I think that' s one of the criteria that ought to be allowed to define it, Bulk storage seems to me one of the criteria i for that ought to be the kind of transportation that has to move it within the warehouse facility as well as what ' s going to move it there . No I 'm not suggesting that it can' t be bulk storage j unles it ' s brought in a huge truck but it seems to me that my idea of bulk storage is that it requires equipment to move and chairs i don' t require equipment to move, A sofa two people can put it I in their trunk and . , . i MR. ANGELL: You are not going to bring a sofa and a couple of I� chairs in a car, �! MR. WALLACE: In a what? MR. ANGELL: Not in an automobile T don' t believe. MR. WALLACE: Well you could in a pick up truck very easily. But you are not going to see an eighteen wheeler with a huge van li pull up and a fork lift get out and move materials on pallets in I� and out which is your typical wholesaling warehouse operation. That' s a wholesale - that' s not retail . MR. ANGELL: Are you suggesting then that Mayflower is strictly (� bulk. storage? MR. WALLACE: No, I 'm not suggesting that at all . What I 'm sug- gesting is that the type of storage that Mayflower engages in is a much larger space where the goods that they store require equip- li ment to move and it ' s a much larger operation - it ' s in essence l �! for them a wholesale storage operation. They are not renting that warehouse storage operation to the public . . . I li I� 43 - �I MR. ANGELL: And yet if you want to store a chair and a couch there, they' ll do it . it MR. WALLACE: Sure but their actual facility, in my judgement, constitutes bulk storage because it ' s in one space - requires heavy equipment to move and I think it is a much different impact in terms of use than this . MR. WALSH: For this kind of use, would you issue a warehouseman' s 11 receipt? 1i MR. WALLACE: No. We don' t with our other facility. We are rent- ing space - that' s all we are doing. jl MR. WALSH: Pure and simple . i! MR. WALLACE: We are renting space to the public small spaces ii where they can store household items . I MR. WALSH: And they have access to it at any time? i' j( MR. WALLACE: Twenty-four hours a day, except when we fumigate twice a month. ji MR. WILCOX: There is no building there now? SMR. WALLACE: There is nothing there now. It ' s right across from l ( Purity. Right across from the Gallery. . . � MR. WILCOX; The Gallery is on the other side? �IMR. WALLACE: Right. I MR. WILCOX: That ' s the other side of Hancock Street? MR. WEAVER: North. 11MR. WALLACE: No - Cascadi,lla, MR, WILCOX: That building still isn' t being used is it? IMR. WALLACE: No. j; CHAIRMAN AMAN: I missed this - how many units do you propose? I �IMR. WALLACE: That 's a good question. I 've got it this has a h number of units of various sizes , SECRETARY HOARD: Fifty-eight units. MR. WALSH: Mr. Wallace, does the definition of bulk given in Il Blacks have a citation for a particular case or anything? I' MR. WALLACE: No I couldn' t find any definition of bulk storage . � MR. WALSH: It doesn't appear to define bulk storage but your memo �i ; indicates that it defines bulk. i' II i 44 - �i jj MR. WALLACE: Oh, bulk is defined in Blacks Law Dictionary. MR. WALSH: And is there a particular case to that? MR. WALLACE: No. The term bulk storage is the term used in the Zoning Ordinance. I was unable to find any case that dealt with �G i bulk storage. The only cases I found dealt with bulk transfers and bulk sales under the Uniform Commercial Code R. Section 9, whish in my judgement is not applicable even in terms of the J definition. i� MR. WALSH: Doesn' t sound like it . MR. WALLACE: No. What little law school training I had, I came ii to that conclusion very quickly. I' l MR. WALSH: We all have that problem from time to time. I take i Blacks definition of bulk is unbroken packages , merchandise , neither counted, weighed or measured would that suggest that your stora e 'I ii of goods without giving a receipt or otherwise accounting for them would be a storage of items in bulk? i i1 MR. WALLACE: No. MR. WALSH: It seems being the fact that you've merely got the space rather than items particularly accounted for, suggests other- wise, the -wise, l MR. WALLACE: Well , I respectfully disagree with you sir. My defi- I ni.tion of bulk storage is the kind of storage of goods similarly related in large quantities which require equipment to move and, 'i in my judgement, would not be applicable to a retail facility - selling space to the public, in my, judgement. All of those things combine I don' t think you can just compartmentalize them and say well that part of the definition would or would not apply, MR. WALSH Well this appears to be one of those peculiar areas where, although we can't tell for sure what Common Council meant ;i when they adopted the statute we are about to tell you and I am anxious for any assistance we can get in that definition. Did you happen to look in common english dictionary such as the OED? it MR. WALLACE: I looked in Anderson, on zoning and one other II treatise on zoning, I was unable to find anything . My contention ii �) is , is that the T-1 zone in which bulk storage is allowed - is an l �I � II 45 - industrial wholesale related kind of facility and maybe so he j i, would have considered a boot strap argument that this is not a ij ii wholesale or industrial facility. There is no relationship to industry or wholesaling here and bulk storage to me - whatever I it the definition you want to apply, in my judgement , ought not to b l� placing a sofa and two chairs in a 5 x 5 space. So whatever definition you want to apply, I don't think it ought to be that 1' b ut, you know, that is your decision and then if it disagrees , if I it is not concurrent with our view, then we seek another remedy that 's all. i; Ij MR. ANGELL: Mr. Wallace, you keep going back to a sofa and two !I chairs but it can be kegs of nails , it can be whatever - it can be ;i kegs of beer - it can be whatever is put in there other than flam- mable or poisonous or perishable goods . j MR. WALLACE: That' s right . Cold storage. In the summertime I l li don' t think it would be put in there. MR. ANGELL: If it' s bottles , I don' t think it whatever that' s not the point. But there are numerous items that can be put in these cubicles, or whatever you want to call them and they are not counted, weighed or measured - and that is your definition of bulk here. MR. WALLACE: That is Black' s Law dictionary, right? ii MR. ANGELL: But that' s and furthermore Black' s law says bulk � y sales - bulk sales is the sale of a business - if you go through the bulk sales law, you can have a push cart with twenty items - I I that' s clearly not a large amount of goods but it still is what happens, MR. WALLACE: it is my judgement sir that if we rented those space it for the purpose of people bringing beer down to those spaces for the purpose of selling that beer to the public - that would be permitted because they are not storing it - they are down there - maybe storing for a couple of days and hopefully sell it . Now if I they are open for business if we say only had twenty compartment 1i and we allowed people to bring furniture down and then sell that jiwe just got a commission on it we would have exactly the same Ili structure - exactly the same impact and clearly permitted. l j - 46 - i'; !,I MR. ANGELL: I think you would have an awful hard time renting those 'i ureas in that case . ;i MR. WALLACE: But the structure would be the same and it would be 'permitted. ,j �i 1MR. ANGELL: But you wouldn' t put it up because it wouldn't be v economically feasible in that case . i MR. WALLACE: I 'm not sure if that ' s an issue that this Board ought i �Ito consider. !MR. ANGELL: I understand that - but you are bringing it up. i �IMR. WALLACE: Well what I am suggesting is , is that the argument against this facility - every one that I have heard is applicable to a clearly permitted use that' s all I 'm suggesting. � MR. WILCOX: Well I think maybe the question isn't the definition �of what is bulk storage the question is does the sale of space i to the public entail retail operation is that considered retail maybe the definition retail would be a more appropriate word to i discuss. MR, WALLACE: Certainly not wholesale or industrial . i IMR. W'ILCOX, Is that location also a difficult location in terms lof access for a retail place? i� MR. WALLACE: No, I don' t think it' s that difficult access - well , it' s off the beaten track - it ' s on route 13 but it ' s not . . . i SMR. WILCOX: Isn' t that a real difficult driving area? IMR. WALLACE: Yes , it's not an ideal location for a retail facility where you would want a lot of traffic driving in - that 's true, on that side.. In my judgement, what we are doing is clearly retail . SMR. WILCOX: Well it strikes me that most of us think of a retail operation as selling goods and services as retail rather than �jwholesale and this strikes me as being new and that you are selling something that (_uni;ntellig%ble) you are selling rental space Viand that' s different animal maybe it fits the description of retail , MR. WALLACE: Well even if it does fit the description of retail - 'lif the Board were to rule that it constituted bulk storage then i ,it' s not permitted. I'm talking Board of Appeals. SMR. WILCOX: Well , that ' s us - I don' t know (unintelligible) that' s 11 i' 47 - 1 ' the Planning Board. . i ,�R. WALLACE: Well that' s true because they did not consider the 1interpretation they only considered the variance if the interpreta- I tion was not . . . li IFHAIRMAN AMAN: The only thing that troubles me is , even if other 4ses generate traffic and what not other permitted uses - there ,�re limits to what we can do with a set of words in the Code in our interpretive powers. 'kR. WALLACE: Well I 'm asking the Board to interpret . . CHAIRMAN AMAN: It may be that the Zoning Code is indeed inconsis- tent you know - that the Common Council was inconsistent in writi g the Zoning Code. The way they wrote it , we have some ability to �itry to straighten that out but (unintelligible) we can' t inter ret the language and in effect rewrite it. Now I 'm not suggesting that maybe we have to do that here but to your argument that per - I �nitted uses would generate some of the same problems that bulk storage - if we were to define bulk storage T if we were to define lit, not in the way that you seek to have us define it. That may ! e the case - it may be that the Zoning Code is indeed , . . R. WALLACE; What I am suggesting is that if there is an inconsis- tency in the Zoning Code we are requiring an interpretation, i .e. , it is ambiguous or questionable or subject to interpretation, then the law clearly demands that it be interpretated in favor of the �land owner and against the Municipality that drafted it, �CHAT;RMAN AM,AN; On the other hand, if it isn't that ambiguous but just seems to be an anomalous provision MR. WALLACE: Fine - then you don' t have that obligation. If it ,was clear cut I wouldn't be here. MR. WALSH: It' s interesting that the Ordinance seems to lump to- �igether as uses prohibited to every district but industrial - indus- � trial storage warehousing wholesale , storage of bulk goods , lumber �1yards and agriculture , they are the exceptions - seeming to put i .,those all in a single class which suggests that whether it is ware- housing in the traditional sense or storag ware- , e of other goods in I ';general except as incident to a specifically permitted use they are hall intended to be thrown under the group of industrial . Do you j I� i - 48 - ;'distinguish that in some way? IMR. WALLACE: Yes , I see we are doing something that is certainly was not contemplated - was not done when the Ordinance - and was i ,outside the contemplation of the Ordinance. It was not contemplate ;when the Ordinance was drafted that the storage of goods , whether they be bulk or otherwise and maybe if we got a definition of non- 1bulk goods we could go someplace - and wholesaling and warehousing etc. did not contemplate a retail facility with 5 x 5 and 5 x 10 �ispaces storing essentially what has been, in our experience, house- hold goods. So I think weRve got something new here that perhaps can arguably fit into both classes and in my judgement not in terms sof bulk storage but in terms of retail warehousing, I think might lbe an appropriate definition and so since we are allowed retail i 1commercial facilities but we are not allowed warehousing and the mord before warehousing is a, wholesaling, I would argue that it is a permitted use - or ought to be. �R. WEAVER: Well am I listening to a sort of general agreement that (there might be an interpretation based upon a distinction between a 'retail vs wholesale storage? I haven't used warehousing at all her in my question. R. WALSH: I 'm not certain that that , in my own mind, I don' t think +that distinction even appears in the Ordinance necessarily but I (suppose you could draw one that way. But it sort of falls in the cracks, i CHAIRMAN AMAN; Any further questions? Thank you very much. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of the variance? I (no one) Is there anyone here who opposes it? R. STODDARD: My name is Albert Stoddard, I reside at 608 Casca- illa Street. First I would like to address the question of inter- pretation of the Zoning Ordinance and on one point I agree with Mr. _allace' s definition of bulk storage - I don' t think that this facilities fits with what could be classified as bulk storage . Fro my experience, and I 'd be more than happy to provide at least a � ossible definition of bulk storage goods would be things like coal , Cheat, grain, sand, gravel - large 'amounts , large quantities and I! 'i l - 49 f '!not kept in close inventory.. However, I feel his facility is classi- 1fied as a warehouse - it' s a warehouse for the storage of household ;goods . The small size of the storage cells does not change the Ij mature of the warehouse nor does the fact that household goods are stored, change it from being a warehouse. We 've already heard that Mayflower has very much the same type operation although they ,!have one very large storage room and, in this case , the warehouse his divided up into small size cells . And, as also has been men- 1tioned, warehousing is not permitted in this zoning district. In I (addition the facility has all the appearance of a warehouse - it !'concrete block walls rows of roll up metal doors, flat roof - the lexterior area is paved primarily, the major part of it - there Hare exterior yard lights for security and virtually no visual i ,;amenities for people on route 13 or people living in the residential llarea nearby. The commercial retail facility I feel has different iproblems than a warehouse facility will have. In this instance , traffic is not a problem there will be very little traffic to the iIstorage facility, People would just be bringing things , leaving ;!them for some period of time and then returning to pick them up. ;!However Mr. Wallace mentioned before the Board of Planning & Develop- ! evelo - llment that there would be no advertising needed for this facility - I ;!that people, if they need to use it they would look it up in the I phone book or whatever and find out what is available for storage 1 Ijof household goods and concurrent with that - he didn''t say this - i but it is my feeling that it is also gives no need to maintain any !hype of pleasant appearance for the facility. It can be left IIlooking like a warehouse.. He has mentioned that there would be shrubs planted around the building but there is no guarantee and �� ossibly no incentive for these to be maintained. I mentioned at jithe Board of Planning and Development that people should consider ; the appearance of what Ithaca is as one drives in from the north ikon route 13. From the hill you see Cayuga Lake, Cornell Campus on 1t1ast Hill and the City of Ithaca in between and after the high 1school , past the sewage treatment plant , a warehouse , a scrap pro- hcessor and several other industrial sites and Cascadilla Street is I! I� f J! �I f - 50 - i As the first pleasant residential cross street . The zoning for the :commercial establishment is correct in this area because rather tha I utting an obvious warehouse on this corner it called to put in some type of commercial establishment which would probably be more appealing to , not only those living there, but also people driving into the city. T do not feel that this is a commercial retail facility. There will be no operator present, no one there renting (spaces , the offices would be located, T assume on Cherry Street at i' ,.�allace Steel , In addition the facility will never be suitable for I� Jany other use than as a warehouse . There would be, as I understand, �no water - a minimum amount of electricity for lighting - so that it could never be converted to anything but warehouse use. And �I +finally the design does not relate at all to the residential struc- (itures on Cascadilla Street and if you look at the existing facility jIon West Clinton, you will find that it fits in very well in the E1industrial area there it matches up very well with the other ware- I, is 1jhouses located next to it. I would like to address the rendering the has brought and possibly make a suggestion that if you are will- ing in this proposal to add some additional amenities as far as the 11 (design that possibly this would be more acceptable in that location. As 1 said, traffic is not a problem - I'm not sure that the use is , Hbut it is definitely a warehouse on that street but it could be fides gned possibly w�th a brick veneer on the side facing off the ! ljproperty - possibly a peaked roof and one suggestions would be that ffthe proposal be subm%tted to the Design Review Board for possible I� ,(changes in design and their recommendation.. On the question of a Muse variance , I don't feel that he has met any of the requirements i lfor a use variance. The General City Law of New York requires that E1 ii ! unnecessary hardship existing in the carrying out of the strict I� Metter of the Ordinance, The City Zoning Ordinance provides for a fuse variance if there are special circumstances or unique condi- ,, tions or that the granting of the variance would be necessary for ;reasonable use of the land and that the granting of the variance fl ,+will be in harmony with the general purposes and intent of the I 110rdinance and not injurious to the neighborhood or otherwise detri r i; mental to the public welfare. And the New York State Courts have ji 51 - 1 fi (held that these are the correct requirements for a use variance. I The applicant has stated that he could build a McDonalds on this site., the could build several other types of retail facilities and there- fore he has shown that he could expect a reasonable return from a 11retail facility, and he has not shown any evidence of unique condi- ;! 'tons and certainly he could demolish the houses directly across l ICascadilla Street and still have the same problem there . The char- racter of the area is now commercial on Meadow Street - there are I several commercial facilities very near by and I feel that the com- �pnercial zoning does provide a buffer between the residential area o I' ; the east and the industrial zone to the west across Meadow Street . ,i And any intrusion of industrial facilities which would include ware 1�ouse facilities into residential neighborhoods should be prevented �as much as possible. It is my feeling that the interpretation of !�he Zoning Ordinance - that this facility is a warehouse and there- Dore not appropriate in this district, is correct - nor has the i1pplicant shown sufficient hardship to merit a use variance . 1R. WALSH: Mr. Stoddard, how would you define a warehouse for i�hi.s purpose? I, iPR, STODDARD; I would define a warehouse as any building that is I�ui1t primarily for the storage of any goods. ' R. WALSH: Historically a warehouse is one in which somebody rents out the use or the - some space but takes a receipt for the goods nd gives some account of the things - it becomes a (unintelligible R. STODDARD; It is also possible to rent warehouse space and use he space yourself wilthqut anyone else the owner taking account o I,I he goods - you take account of the goods yourself. R. WALSH; The entire building. I� R. STODDARD; Which is exactly what this is except it is just a i mall portion of the building, R. WALSH; Mr, Wallace made the argument that this in effect is no 'ne use that was contemplated br the Ordinance - it sort of fell etw-een a retail sort of establishment with some people coming and i i ging on occasion and a historically recognized bulk use for :usiness purposes Do you see any merit in that or - it does seem ii - 52 - ! in some respects that it is a use that wasn't in contemplation at it dd1the time the Ordinance was drafted. i !MR. STODDARD: I would agree that it was probably not considered lin the Ordinance and that it also was why I suggest that maybe the I !idesign should be submitted to the Design Review Board and a change � in the design so that it doesn't have the appearance of a warehouse I !I may have some merit. !!MR. WALSH: Would you feel that the use that is proposed is in fact ! ( closer to a retail sort of establishment than to the traditional heavy industrial warehousing type of use which requires heavy ma- chinery and steady in and out traffic and the like? MR. STODDARD: I would put it closer to a warehouse, actually. i MR. WALSH: Not surprisingly. �j IMR. STODDARD: Well granted it doesn' t require heavy machinery and i i!may not be a large amount of traffic but some other warehouse, !very similar type thing so , for instance, the Mayflower warehouse ! they unload the trucks by hand, they don' t use heavy machinery on the furniture. CHAIRMAN AMAN: Any further questions? �MR. WEAVER: Mr. Stoddard, as a neighbor down there do I understan �I that you would prefer that one of the clearly permitted uses such as a high traffic generating retail would be preferable in your I� opinion? i MR. STODDARD: Well I think the problems that are generated by tha fare different and traffic being the major one. 'iMR. WEAVER: I agree with you. JMR. STODDARD: The appearance of a retail facility there - to gen- erate business they've got to have something that looks pleasing to the public and this has all the appearances of a warehouse . lMR. WALSH: I had the same question though because I think of a �Iretail facility such- as one mentioned using golden arches and 1having some atmosphere about it that permeates the neighborhood I ,would you prefer that? �IM,R. STODDARD: 'Yes I think I would and for the reason that when they are put in they do give consideration to traffic flow, they I I I! i 53 - I also are brick, they have nice roof lines and they have extensive landscaping around them and it is maintained and usually on the bac I ;;side where they face up to other properties , they will put a high Ij ;;fence and its not a chain link fence, it ' s a grape stick fence or I! ;cedar fence or something like that. 4MR. WALSH: Okay. R. WEAVER: If one of them went in down here they would put up a fence to shield the view of the bulk storage plant next door. CHAIRMAN AMAN: Any further questions? Thank you Mr. Stoddard. Anyone else wishing to speak in opposition? (no one) Hearing nothing further we will call the next case. j BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS j COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK �i DECEMBER 79 1981 EXECUTIVE SESSION APPEAL NO. 1411 : Ir The Board considered the appeal of Harold Wallace and Marvin Freed- !nan for an interpretation or a use variance to permit the use of the I (property at 622 Cascadilla Street for a self-storage business . The decision of. the Board was as follows : SIR. WILCOX: The Board finds that the interpretation of the busi- ness activity in question is a warehousing activity i and as such. is not allowed in a B-2a zone . j 2) The standard for economic hardship has not been met. MR. WALSH.* I second the motion. Ij VOTE: 5 Yes; 1 No Carried jI i I li I I I! l ij I! 1'. i - 54 - BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS ii CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK i' ii DECEMBER 7 , 1981 LSECRETARY HOARD: The next case Mr. Chairman is appeal number 1412 : i Appeal of,-,Robert and Natalie Baker for an �j area variance under Section 30. 25 , Columns Ij 11 and 13 and Section 30. 49 to permit the I; construction of an addition to the rear of the building at 412-414 North Tioga Street for dental office space. The property is located in the Courthouse Special Use Zone where the use is per- mitted; however the property is deficient in front yard and one side yard setbacks . The new space created would substitute for cellar space which has been subject to ser- ious damage from flooding. �r. Baker if you would come up front please. Ii R. BAKER: Thank you. I 'm here to request an area variance, not ctually for - I wish- 1 wasn' t here, not for expanding our facility in any way but to relocate X-ray equipment and our storage area. I spur present area has been destroyed three times now by flood and I II`ust can' t go through it again very frankly we've had extensive loss of supplies - records: have been equipment on every one of hese occasions and it puts us in a very tough situation, probably uninsurable situation. We are not - we don' t intend to expand our II facilityin an way, in fact we are actuall abandonin a art of y' y� : actuallyabandoning p � . ur facility and we are. simply trying to relocate the X-ray and storage area at the ground level in a present garage that is at- cached to the building that we want to take over and do, so I guess that is the essence of my plea - it 's a hardship due to flooding - here is apparently just no way we can control this. We have tried I very way possible to control flooding. I 'm a partner in this and am acting as the spokesman for our group. HAiRMAN AMAN: All changes are internal? R. BAKER: Well no there is an existing walkway that we want to �nclos:e there is no = well I guess that' s it - yes, an existing II Iivalkway, we want to enclose and we want to put a small addition on I�he garage which I don't believe is out of the zoning thing at all I+ it' s plenty of - 1 forget what they it ' s 10 x 12 or something I �ike that - Tom has that you can tell us. Ii �ECRETARY HOARD: I have the plans here. 55 - `CHAIRMAN AMAN: Does the proposed addition on the garage increase i. '(the deficiencies that presently exist or does it . . . ;SDR. BAKER: No, you see we have all our models and record storage jlin the basement and it really doesn' t give us - it's the minimal i j,amount of room we can possibly work with - we just we 've got to move dour records from the basement - we 've lost our records three times i �ow and it puts us in a - frankly - a bad position from malpractice i 1�- from anything - we just can' t leave records anymore - we've got I �o other place to put them so that ' s why we want to - why we need t move . To give you a general idea of what we 've gone through. CHAIRMAN AMAN: fi can understand the need to move but the changes ;;that you are making - to the external structure - do they in any ay increase the side yard setback deficiencies? I�R. BAKER: I don't believe so, do they Tom? �SECRETARY HOARD: No the one addition is at the rear of the build- ing which is unaffected and the other one is a walkway - as Dr . �akersaid, which is on the north side of the building which would e enclosed. i R. ANGELL: I't is covered now though isn't it? R. BAKER: No, no the south. one is - I wish we could use that it �ouldsave me a lot of time and money, but we can't - I've had the I it's an outside thing where this is an inside internal flow of atients so we have to have a way and we 've got to cover similar 1 Q the other side, So tha=t' s - the major thing we have to get out f the basement area is the X-ray equipment, we 've lost that twice I �Qw and that's . . . �Piscussion took. place between Mr. Angell , Dr. Baker, Secretary � oard and Chairman Aman while they were looking at the plans the ape recorder didn't pick it up HAiRMAN AMAN: Any further questions? Thank you Doctor, Is there I anyone here who wishes to speak. on behalf of the variance? (no one Is there anyone here who opposes W, (no one) Hearing nothing Orth.er we will call the last case. i Ii �i I f sj i - 56 - ii BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS j COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS j CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK ii DECEMBER 7 , 1981 ii j EXECUTIVE SESSION '� PPEAL NO. 1412 : ��ihe Board considered the appeal of Robert and Natalie Baker for an ';rarea variance to permit the construction of an addition to the rear Of the building at 412-414 North Tioga Street for dental office i Space . The decision of the Board was as follows : 4 CHAIRMAN AMAN: I move that the Board grant the area variance it ii requested in appeal number 1412. SIS. HAINE: I second the motion. ; OTE: 6 Yes ; 0 No Granted BINDINGS OF FACT: i I ) Practical difficulties have been shown. I u jig) The proposed changes do not exacerbate the present area ;I deficiencies. (I I i; ii i i ii j i; ,I I �I l I' �i i i Ij li i! i li it II j it r! 57 - BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS !' COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS I' CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK i DECEMBER 7, 1981 I!SECRETARY HOARD: The last case is appeal number 12-1-81 : is !i Appeal of Iry Lewis , Inc. for a sign vari- ance under Section 34. 5 , Paragraph B-1, i' of the sign ordinance to permit the erec- tion of a sign larger than five square fee on the commercial buildingat 303 West Lincoln Street. The proerty is located in an R-2b (residential) use district , Ii which limits signage to no more than five square feet . SMR. MENKE: My name is Steve Menke, I represent Eastern Copy Pro- 11 1 ucts - we are the tenants of the building at 303 W. Lincoln Street I ioriginally I was here August 31st requesting a use variance for the roper y. At that time we weren' t aware of the sign ordinance - the imitations that we would be required to go with a five square foot $ign at that area. The landlord implied that we would be allowed li sixty square foot sign all along and, as a company, we felt no 1 reason to question the landlord, Since August 31st of this year I� Ire have made many improvements to the inside and to the outside of i Ithis structure, We have given a new face to the outside, painted !the building and cleaned up the exterior we've turned what was a l,arage in appearance , into a modern office building. We have pro- )osed a sign of forty-fi.ve square feet, originally, I believe you 4ave copies of this this is in scale to the size that we originally requested. riginal y requested. The Planning Board had recommended a sign no larger than i Itwenty- two square feet to be in accordance with the building next oor, Cayuga Electric Supply, their sign is slightly larger than That. We are requesting this variance because we feel that a five i I$quare foot sign would not be visible and it would not identify our building. I also have here what a five square foot sign would look ike on the front of the building. It is not very large would yo ike to take a closer look at it or not? ECRETARY HOARD: Which side is the sign on? �IR. MENKE: This is on the wooden side, I also have one on the th.er side, you know might stand out a little better, HAIRMAN AMAN: Does this front on any residential? I� i R' - 58 - [['MR. MENKE: No. I was getting to that point . We feel that it is I unique hardship because it just faces route 13 and it is not visible !from any of the residents, They are on our side - as a matter of ; fact, there is only one house, very close to us and that is right ,Ion one side and I spoke with Mr. Longo and he said that if he had +any objections he would be here before the Board. But his presence Minot here states that he doesn' t care what we do, he is happy to have us in the building. I've also brought along with me something that I felt would look very nice on the building and I believe that you have copies of this but not in color. Now I don' t know if it is Ithe Zoning Boards interpretation that if a sign were made and a ' design painted along the top of the lettering, if that would be determined a part of the sign or if that would be a design. This ,lis what I would like on our building but if that is not possible - �II 've been keeping all the sign people busy here in town. I was ,I thinking of something like this with our name on the wood but then maybe the brown design over here where it wouldn! t even touch the i� Isi,gn - so 1, (CHAIRMAN AMAN: This looks smaller . . . l IMR. MENKE: These are done by two different sign people - that is lalso done to scale . I�CHAIRMAN AMAN: But it would be a total of twenty-one . . . MR. MENKE: Twenty-one square 21 . 75 square feet would be the size Ito block out our name Eastern Copy products, Inc. That does not take into account the brown design that would run across the top ;of the building.. II R. WEAVER: Plan 11?, R. MENKE; Plan 2. R. WEAVER: 2? i R. MENKE; Yes . ��R. WEAVER: Alright. And that is how many, feet, 21., 75? R. MENKE: 21 . 75 is the size of the letters � to cover the letters . I That would not be the size of the design. R. WEAVER: That' s what you want? R. MENKE: That' s what I I would think would make a nice appear- I 'ng building. I ii �! 59 - IMR. ANGELL: Let ' s see that - is that the one you've got in color? i' IIMR. MENKE: Yes. Would you like to take a closer look at it? i MR. ANGELL: I don' t know - does that look like part of the design. I don' t know. I, !IMR. WEAVER: First of all, I 'd like a clarification from the appel- i jllant here. That is what you want? I SMR. MENKE: Well , I would like a sign and I am willing to go with 1the 22 foot sign. I don' t know if this goes along with the way i lithe Board works but if you tell me that I can't have that sign, ,but I can have another sign that ' s what I will go for. EMR. WEAVER: I don' t know how- this Board works either but just to i� is:ati,sfy me, there are two other signs here and . . . MR. MENKE: Okay. Sign number 1 , to clarify this , was originally proposed a forty-five square foot sign. IMR. WEAVER: Is this number 1? !MR. MENKE: Number 1 - that is correct. ,IMR. WEAVER: How many feet is that? i MR. MENKE: Forty-five square feet. The Planning Board recommende ,unanimously that we go with a much smaller sign twenty-two squar foot. iMR. WEAVER: And this sign is how many feet? E IMR. MENKE: This is twenty-two square feet or on the wooden side it is exactly twenty-,two square feet. I jMR. WEAVER: Could you - your preference is 1 , 2 or 3 as they are numbered? �MR. MENKE: No. Originally preference 1 - T have been willing to ieliminate because of the size and it was not recommended. Number I1 is forty-five square feet. IMR. WEAVER: Forget there is a Planning Board and just tell me wha you want what your choices are? IMR. MENKE: Okay, Well it would be 2 and 3 7 just eliminate numbe �I 1 . f IMR. WEAVER: In other words , in order of preference you would like ii j 2? j' MR, MENKE; I would like 2,. I I r - 60 - 1MR. WALSH: Mr. Menke, I have a faint recollection when you were here last - we had a discussion about the nature of the business ; that was to be conducted at the premises and I may be entirely .! faulty in this recollection but I recall you as saying that the !business would be principally one where you would have one or two Iipeople there responding to a response to telephone requests off ;; the premises which suggested to me that a sign larger than one ,I merely identifying would not be necessary on the premises . Can you refresh my recollection as to what was said in that regard? MR. MENKE: I can try. We are primarily an outside sales organiza- tion where we canvas- in person, occasionally by telephone . A majority of the time the equipment is brought out to the customers office. Some of the equipment that we are now dealing with is large sophisticated equipment that cannot be easily transported i from the office. So we do have people that come to us, We feel �,Ithat we do need the sign so people will know that we are here , c Mother than the telephone book, In this business it is very, very i! ! competitive - a lot of times people will look at one product and won' t know that there is an alternative r and won't even look in ! the telephone book. We would wish that they would see our sign ,f land say well there is somebody local here and then think to look I '�!up our number in the telephone book, l�MR,. WALSH: I certainly wouldn't want to see you put at a compe- titve disadvantage and at the same time I am anxious to observe the spirit of the Ordinance as closely, as possible within the par Iticular area. Your feeling is that you would generate enough I lin essence - walk-in kind of trade with a sign of this order to jmake it a requirement of your business? MR. MENKE, Yes , every other one of our offices does have signs Mand much- larger than twenty-two square feet. The walk-in business would justify having a sign on the building. We are not talking j�about small dollars with the equipment that we do handle. We are i talking thousands of dollars , 11MR. WALSH: Which- is, the very thing that suggests to me that most ijpeople who are making such an investment would carefully assess I 61 - !!what was available to them and would be largely unaffected by the i !!attraction of a sign in passing . is 'I !!MR. MENKE: Well it would not necessarily be so. For instance, to i ; use some names of my competitors. Xerox - if they were into the ;area and talking to any one of my accounts people may just feel jthat Xerox is the best and is here to help me and may not even kno of Eastern Copy Products . We would hope that they would see our I; sign our name to know that we are here locally. We are not I� Tasking - like I said, it doesn' t matter to put up a monstrous !'sign, labelling everything that we carry or our telephone number i or things like that , there is other ways to advertise that we ! just want to be identified we aren't right on route 13 - we are ! distance away from route 13 - we are also in a law-lying area where we feel that the sign is necessary, iCHAI'RMAN AVIAN: Did you say that Cayuga Electric sign is roughly jitwenty-two square feet? i' IMR. MENKE: It is approximately twenty-five square feet and their sign says Cayuga Electric & Supply Co, , Inca so it involves three more letters than Eastern Copy Products Inc. ! CHAIRMAN AMAN: Any further questions from the Board? Thank you i ! sir. I R. MENKE: Thank you very much.. jCHAIRMAN AMAN: I don't see anybody else out there. Hearing nothing !further this Board will go into executive session and will reconvene I �to announce the decisions, i I i ii i ii I� 11 i! i 62 - li i �j BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK i DECEMBER 7 , 1981 EXECUTIVE SESSION �I APPEAL NO. 12-1-81 : R I Oe Board considered the appeal of Iry Lewis , Inc. for a sign vari- fi ,�nce to permit the erection of a sign larger than five square feet ( On the commercial building at 303 West Lincoln Street. The deci- sion of the Board was as follows: R. WEAVER: I move that the Board grant the sign variance it I. requested in appeal number 12x1-81 with the �I condition that Plan II be adopted with no more than 21. 75 square feet allowed. I I PAIRMAN AMAN: I second the motion. I�'OTE: 6 Yes ; 0 NO Granted w/condition I I INDINGS OF FACT: I ) The building faces route 13, No residential property is located across the street from it . There does not appear to be any negative impact on the neigh- �i Borhood. I� The location of the building is sufficiently far from the high- way to require a sign of that size to make it identifiable . If I' I i I i I I I, �I fl i i I a i H Ili II i 1 i 1 ,i 63 - li II hj , BARBARA RUANE, DO CERTIFY that I took the minutes of the Board !!of Zoning Appeals , City of Ithaca, New York, in the matters of I :!Appeals numbered 1399, 1405 , 1406, 1407 , 1408 , 1409, 1410, 1411 , I = 1412 , and 12-1-81 on December 7 , 1981 at City Hall , City of Ithaca New York; that I have transcribed same , and the foregoing is a tru I�copy of the transcript of the minutes of the meeting and the . executive session of the Board of Zoning Appeals , City of Ithaca, i! an the above date, and the whole thereof to the best of my ability. ; i i I� Barbara C. R ane II Recording Secretary 'i �I w i i I r Ii �I �ISworn to before me this `7day of �c� � 19.81 I I I Notary Public 'AI LIST. F P:'r)T _)tary i ul):ic of New ''or, )ualified iCGI t" x Expi.e X50, 1^ � I i I i II II i' I I i 'I i �i I I