Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1984-08-06 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK AUGUST 6, 1984 TABLE OF CONTENTS PAGE APPEAL NO. 8-1-84 CORNELL UNIVERSITY 2 SAGE PLACE & EAST SENECA STREET APPEAL NO. 8-1-84 Decision 16 APPEAL NO. 1577 William S. Downing, III (NO ONE SHOWED) 19 405 South Albany Street APPEAL NO. 1578 Gerald L. & Martha L. Smith (NO ONE SHOWED) 19 116 North Titus Avenue APPEAL NO. 1579 HENRY & MARY BETH FITZGERALD 20 136 FAYETTE STREET APPEAL NO. 1579 Decision 26 APPEAL NO. 1580 Robert L. & Rita A. Boothroyd (NO ONE SHOWED) 27 BOARD DISCUSSION INVOLVING MEMO FROM PLANNING & DEVELOPMENT BOARD 27 CERTIFICATION OF RECORDING SECRETARY 39 A 1 BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6 , 1984 PAGE 1 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS AUGUST 6, 1984 CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I ' d like to call this meeting to order . This is a formal meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals of the City of Ithaca , The hearing will follow procedures set forth in the rules: and regulations adopted by this: Board at an earlier meeting and will be in accordance with the Ordinance . First I ' d like to introduce the members of the Board : JEAN COOKINGHAM BETTE BAGNARDI MICHAEL TOMLAN TRACY FARRELL CHARLES WEAVER: CHAIRMAN THOMAS D . HOARD, SECRETARY TO THE BOARD 8 BUILDING COMMISSIONER BARBARA RUANE , RECORDING SECRETARY ABSENT : RICHARD BOOTH The procedure we follow is that first we hear each appeal, we ask anyone who wishes to testify to come up and use one of these seats and the microphone, here at the end, table , and , having heard the appeal, we then provide for an opportunity for anyone who wishes; to speak in support of the appeal and then following that anyone who wishes to speak in opposition and case by case., upon hearing the testimony, the Board makes a determination and votes by, written: ballot Upon receiving the written ballot I ask the secretary to announce the results of the balloting . So we will hear these cases in the: order in which they appeared in the official notices and may we have the first ease please . SECRETARY HOARDi The first appeal is appeal number 8- 1-34 - Sage BZA MINUTES AUGUST 62 1984 PAGE t Place and East Seneca Street ; Appeal of Cornell University for a sign vari- ance for non-conformities under Section 34 . 4, paragraph F and 34 . 8,, paragraph A of the Sign Ordinance to permit the placement of a sign at the corner of Sage Place and East Seneca Street, within the East Seneca Street right- of-way . This sign would identify properties at 505 East Seneca Street . MS , BISHOP: I ' m Marisa€e Bishop, I am representing the Department of Transportation Services at Cornell University . Did each of you get one of these maps with the appeal? CHAIRMAN WEAVER ! Yes . MS . BISHOP- It shows where the e•r..is:ting location is . It is quite a history . Prior to a request to erecting this sign -there is a sign there now: at the existing location as is stated on the map It is a tall, white hoard sign that says -Schuyler House" with several of the letters missing , We believe that the sign had been erected there: before the: sign ordinance came into exis- tanc:e . It is inaccurate in that it says Schuyler House - it is Sage Place - which is the name: of the street and there are more building=_: dawn there than ,just Schuyler House . The neighbors in that neighborhood have been heavily burdened by residents and users: of that complex that is: really hidden from Seneca =street who are trying to find their location - sometimes as late as mid- night, knocking on their doers: - finding out if that indeed is ':rage House - so at the request of the neighborhood in particular , we have been trying to make a better sign -something that will indicate more readily what is really dawn there and what the en- BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6j 1984 PAGE 3 trance is down there . The location to put the sign is eery dif- ficult . I made up a map, unfortunately the board that I wrote on didn' t absorb ink: very well - perhaps_, you can see it . Seneca ':street is up at the. top - =gage Place comes: dawn here - the exact ownership of Nage Place is unknown . We' ve searched deeds with the. City and there is none . Cornell does have legal right-of-way to Sage Place and has: had usage of it for so many years that it is assumed that Cornell owns it and maintains it, but in actually seeking a -Meed, there doesn' t seem to be one . Cornell property actually begins eighteen feet from the curb on the west side of .Nage Place and one hundred forty-three feet from the curb on the east side of gage Place, making it virtually useless to place a sign on Cornell nell propert— stage Place itself is sixteen feet wide - all of which is paved - There is no right-of-way . It might be about fifteen and one-half feet without any deeds and real mea- surements - the only way we could really tell into which property those extra six inches :go, would be to measure from the corners, clown, using other people' s deeds and lot sizes . All of this is public right-of-way . (pointing to her map) There is a ten foot grassy section which is ctuite large and very well maintained and a five foot walk: . The existing sign is here and it is in a slight blind spot behind a telephone pole and a fire hydrant . Blind spot only for one small area is when you come down Seneca Street and the sign as we have it designed would be visible prior to hitting the telephone pole and afterwards, so there is a slight blind spot . We would prefer not to place the sign in BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6,, 1994 PAGE 4 front of. the Menderhall ' s property . We feel that it - I will show you a picture of the sign too, it might be one more indica- tion that the Mendenhall ' s house is, indeed, Sage House and we were trying to avoid that . We think: having it on this side of the street would lessen that kind of confusion, On either side it is public right-of-way and I have spoken, to .lack: Dougherty, I have taken him there - we have met at this location, and he has agreed that should the Board of Zoning Appeals grant this appeal, that we may use City property . The sign was designed with the assistance of the Ithaca Landmarks Preservation Committee so that it would be in keeping with the historical district . At one print it was suggested that "Special Gifts" be put on there also, we have since realized that we can' t do that - that is a depart- ment within a division at Cornell and typically Cornell signs do not list individual departments: - it might list a division . So i "special gifts„ will be off there . It is a metal sign, thirty- six inches high from the ground is where the bottom of it will begin . CHAIRMAN 'WEAVEV You say this is a metal - you are proposing a metal sign? MS . BISHOP: Actually I think: it is wood - the sign, is being done by some metal workers - no the sign, I think:, is wood . The colors were suggested to us by the Ithaca Landmarks Preservation; Commission . Leo you have any questions? There really is no other location that we can put it - it is either where the existing sign, is or exactly across Sage Place, in front of the BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6,, l9e4 PAGE 5 Mendenhall ' s house ( unintelligible) MS . C:OOKINGHAM; In the proposed - in the application,, they mentioned Sage: House,, Bailey House and Schuyler House . Is Bailey House going to be added to that? MS . BISHOP . No, not at this time, Bailey House is a . . . . MS . CCOOKINGHAM! I don' t understand what you mean, not at this time? MS , BISHOP` It is can a twenty year land-lease type arrangement with a private contractor so if that should occur, it would not be within the next twenty years . ( unintelligible) MS . BAGNAEDli The sign is indeed woos - you mentioned metal at first . MS . BISHOP' Yes . I think, it is because it is from the people who make them - Eastern Metal - that is what I was thinking of . MS . BAGNARDI : Well when you first mentioned "metal" I suddenly thought of one of these real estate signs that are really easily removed - but this will be set in a foundation? MS : BISHOP: Yes it is: on a metal post - I ' ll pass this; around to you,, it will probably be more clear . It will be printed on both sides: - foot traffic: can also see even though it is; a one-way street going south . CCHAIRMAN WEAVER( In my memory this right-of-way that you refer to as Sage Place, had a street sign . MS . BISHOP : It has none right now . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well do you know the history of that? MS , BISHOP" I don' t . Somewhere in my dealings with City 07A MINUTES AUGUST 6,> l9a4 PAGE 6 Officials throughout .all of this, some person had spoken to another person in the City and suggested that the City erect a Sage Place sign there . CHAIRMAN WEAVER : Well there was one and I just wonder by what manner it was removed . MS , BISHOP: I don' t know . There is not now - the Schuyler House sign is the only identifying mark: there, except the "entrance only - traffic: control sign that we had to put up also . CHAIRMAN WEAVER! The sign that indicates the "entrance only" is that a Cornell owned or erected sign? MS . BISHOPI Yes it is . That is: erected by New York: Vehicular Code - we' ve had to make it - at some point, one-way, going in there because of the width of the street and it kind of goes around, in a - well . . . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I ' m familiar with the . . Ms . BISHOP : You are familiar with it? CHAIRMAN WEAVER : Yes . MS . BISHOP; And it was: suggested also, recently, that we remove that "entrance only" sign because it looks pretty tacky up there . I ' ve asked the gentleman who is in charge of signage - traffic; control signage at Cornell, to lock: into it , It ' s really a different issue from this because that is a traffic: control sign while this is a location sign . CHAIRMAN WEAVED'.: Well, I ' m trying to develop some information here . Is Cornell exercising its: rights under the Education Law to control traffic: through Sage Place? Is that a position of the BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 1: 84 PAGE 7 appellant? MS . BISHOP: Not for this case, no, that isn' t relevant to this is it? CHAIRMAN WEAVER! It may not be, I don' t know . The need for this and the rather unique situation, by observation, I don' t see very many signs identifying buildings in the space between curb and sidewalks throughout the: City and particularly in a historic: dis- trict would there be an adequate direction to people trying to look: for your property if you could say it is on Sage Place rather than identifying the buildings out there and thein identify the buildings: after they get in Sage Place . MS . BISHOP : I don ' t know . CHAIRMAN WEAVER! The: City also, if it is the City' s responsibil- ity or authority - has; the authority to put up traffic control and directional signs in that strip of land, why it hasn ' t exer- cised it recently, I don' t know - I don' t understand, but whether - you know, if people can find their way around the Cornell Cam- pus, being able to fine! Sage Place would be a pretty simple pro- cedure . MS . BISHOP : I think: the intent of this: originally was not the Cornell intent, it was at the request of the neighborhood, to make things much more visible and to kind of curtail some of the intrusion of the people who use the Sage Place complex . CHAIRMAN WEAVER : Well I ' m not impressed that that sign, as you have shown it, is going to be much of an attention getter unless they are pedestrians . 82A MINUTES AUGUST 6,, 19x4 PAGE a MS . BISHOP: Well it would be visible from the from the road. CHAIRMAN WEAVER : Yes . MS , BISHOP: It is certainly a very attractive sign . CHAIRMAN WEAVER! Granted . But whether it is: effective is what I was addressing myself to . Well , are there any other questions from the Board? Yes . MR . TOMLAN' I ' d like to ask: if you have: any documentation from the neighborhood either supporting or opposing the sign? MS . BISHOP: We had one telephone call from a neighbor who was just very happy that the sign was going up . We have had nothing negative . MR . TOMLAN: But you don' t have anything in writing? MS . BISHOP : No . MR . TOMLAN: Thank you . MS . BAGNARDI : Would the neighbors have to be notified in regard to this? MS . BISHOP : Yes . MS . BAGNARDI : So letters, were sent out? MS . FARRELL : How many were contacted? MS . BISHOP : Twenty I believe . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: If this document that was a part of our package is in fact the one that was circulated - is a copy - it shows the proposed sign at a different location than you described tonight . MS . BISHOP: Originally, yes,, the sign was on the other side . We were: able to switch it before I sent these out . CHAIRMAN WEAVER : So the neighborhood received - not what I have BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6 . 1984 PAGE 9 in my hand? MS , BISHOP ; She original that I have now had those corrections macre on it . Now it is really hard for me to remember and I apol- ogize for this as to what point in time these changes were made . Certainly before the appeal was filed . We had filed it first on the other _ride still belie-,ring that Cornell property -we had a lot of trouble figuring out where Cornell property was . I beg your pardon - I remember now - the sign that was - this map that was sent out to the neighbors did have the location on the other side of the street and I asked that someone in the Development Office at Cornell contact the Mendenhalls personally to let them know that the map they received - we would not actually be trying to place a sign in front of their house . CHAIRMAN WEAVER i Are there further questions? MS , BA.GNARDI : What is in Sage House, graduate students? MS . BISHOP : Yes . MS , BA.GNA.RDI : Is all of this housing? Mrs , BISHOP: No., some of it is housing and some of it is offices . MS , BAGNARDI , fro that is why you have inquiries or the neighbors have inquiries late at night - people looking for . . . . MS . BISHOPI It is the residents - the student residences that they are looking for , I think . MS . BAGNARDI ; Thank you . MS , BISHOP : And that is the only entrance now . The entrance to this complex, I believe, used to be on State Street and that was blocked off, now this is the only entrance into this large BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6,, 1984 WAGE 10 complex - CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Any further questions:? Thank: you. Is there anyone who wishes_: to speak: in support of this application? Yes . MB'. . MACKi i I am Marion Mack, who lives at the Mendenhall house -my sister owns it . I guess. I want to speak: for this, I want to speak: for something or ether at least . None of these buildings was: identified for years . A couple of months ago, or three, Sage House: was identifies! - a very nice sign - a eery artistic sign - it was colored to fit with the building . I tested it on my way down tonight and I could read it at twenty paces . I could read the one-way sign, which is the: only sign on Schuiler House, at sixty paces . In between is a sign which I could read at thirty paces, it says Seymour Disposal Service . This makes me very skeptical as to whether this sign will be effective, These signs have about the same: size lettering, I forgot to observe that, it is a matter of contrast . Of course, black: on white or white on black: is what carries the ;greatest distance - possibly yellow on black or black: on yellow because yellow is almost as light as white. It may penetrate fog more., although I doubt it - I ' m an art teacher - I don' t believe that yellow chalk: shows on a black- board as, much as white dries but be that as it may, will gold on maroon show enough for directory purposes? I don' t know . Now if gold means gold leaf and if the letters are engraved so that they are at different angles; in reflection, you will get a flash on the gold if it is a flat surface, and the gold leaf is: on that, you will get a flash at a certain angle and all other angles you BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6 , 1984 PAGE ll will see dark: brown . That ' s the way gold is . Beautiful stuff but for directory purposes, it is very questionable . Now before this sign went up on Sage House:, none of these buildings were identified, I don' t know how long Schuyler House has been there but the only sign on Schuyler House says one-way . It has several entrances, several doors, and probably the least conspicuous one is the entrance so that when anybody going down there doesn' t know how to get in the building unless he guesses . This has dis- turbed me no end and I have spent many hours. making sketches., actually painting a sign one time .and studying this and talking with Mr . ware about the problem. It is: a complex thing and I know the City isn' t interested in all of it but I am interested in a sign there which will look: better than that horrible thing that has been up there for these years -terrible sign . It must be larger but it must be legible - if it is not on our own prop- erty, I wouldn' t hes,titate on this - but I don ' t hesitate at all on this: being put up on the other corner if it is a good sign . It is: a very messy corner .. I cut the grass on it to get it cut . MS , FAR.R.ELL : Do you find that you have a lot of people asking for directions? MR, MACK, Oh yes . I was working out today and was not asked but I heard one of the carpenters or painters in the neighborhood being asked where Schuyler House was . Almost always it is for Schuyler House but once in awhile for Sage House and once in awhile for Professional Skills - I ' ve never been asked for any- thing else but those three . But at least twice people have come QZA MINUTES AUC ►_ ST 6, 1984 PAGE li up the stairway in our house: delivering pizzas, or whatever and I think: it was two o' clock one night my sister came down when the bell ran►g, this person was looking for Schuyler House . Now the University has a very nice sign saying Annabell Taylor Hall, Myren Taylor Hall, ►_tris Literary, e:tc: , but nothing like that on these buildings . It is complicated because Sage Place is U-shaped , It used to he: a through street - it had several resi- dences on it which have been torn down and turned into parking lots: and a few of them have been left and are teeing developed by Mr . Novarr now . But with the U-shape it is very complicated to give people: directions . I always take them down and show it to them - point it out to them. Cour house is grey stucco - it is grey stucco . It has a red roof so I say it is the house with the red roof . I say that Sage House is the brownstone or the red- stone house . This kind of thine is necessary to direct and the first proposition► here did not have: an arrow on it . I ' m sure that without an arrow more people would be coming to our house than formerly . MR . TOMLAN! You've lived in that residence - you are: now living at that residence how many years? MR . MACK ; About forty years . MR . TOMLAN: Do you ever remember a street sign at the cornea? MR . MACK . Oh yes . It has been gone for si# or seven years . It just got tired I think, it rusted off at the bottom. I was plagued with the cement for awhile because I wanted grass_: to grow there instead of having the: ugly block: of gement . I finally go BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6 , 1984 PAGE 13 grass over it . ' MR . TOMLAN: It was a city . . . MR . MACK ? It was a city - it was like all signs, which says Sage. Place, not city street - the kind of thing they put up in spots like that . It rust disappeared, like other signs around there . The sign saying „one-way" was: stolen one night and I was wakened and called out the window and they left it down, - vandals left it dawn the street aways . Another time they threw it under my side- walk;,, right an my sidewalk: there, so it may have been vandalism in this, I don' t know . But as; I say, the sign was getting a lit- tle tired, I think: . It might have been bumped into - two trees have been run over on that passage, by cars - something of that kind may have injured this - but I just noticed that it was gone . There was; a sign of that kind in the bushes a few years; ago when the mer: were working on the street, so I told them about it - that if they could find a street sign in the bushes over by the - this is; quite a long ways: from my house but this is .just one of those things that gets neglected . MS . COOKINGHAM: Mr . Mack:, were Sage House and Schuyler House located on Sage Place before this sign disappeared? MR . M.ACO Before this there was one building but built in dif- ferent periods by the same architect . What is now Sage House is the brownstone, as I said. Then the grey stucco was added onto it to make the University Infirmary larger . It was all the In- firmary , There were: very few inquiries then for the Infirmary but occasionally so . It could be approached for many years, of BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6 , 1984 PAGE 14 course,, from State Street and there was an engraved stone sign on the wall beside the entrance to the Sage estate which said Uni- versity Infirmary and which has been reversed now so there is a blank: stone in the wall . But it was not a U-shaped affair then . The entrance was on a straight Sage Place - wasn' t far from it but still facing Sage Place . Now Schuyler is on the a_! - it is around the: bottom of a U, before you yet to it, sot it is very hard to - I have proposed several signs dawn in there in corres- pondence with Mr . Ware who is not the official, I think:, he just works in the neighborhood there and represents the University for me so that this one had several signs which directed people on and on and can to yet to the place . Now ideally and as Mr . Weaver was saying, I would say put up an ordinary sign that says "Sage Place, One-Way Traffic" , just say that, then beyond that - find the University building - ,just as you find - I can' t name a Uni- versity building on a street but the way it is there, so you find out that this is on Sage Place, and then you go up Saye Place until you find it - but there must be directory signs down there which tell them what the building is and maybe before you get to it a little bit, yes . But whether it has to be on that corner or not, I don' t know and I don' t personally care very much because the corner is an unsightly corner and it won' t be - the sign will not spoil it if it is a sign of this kind which is being contem- plates! - but whether it is necessary, I doubt it . Whether any- thing will be effective , I doubt it . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Thank: you . Are there any further questions? 6ZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 19a4 PAGE 15 Thank; you eery much. Is there anyone else who wishes_: to speak in support of this application? (no one) Is there anyone who wishes to speak: in opposition to this application? ( no one) BZA MINUTES AUGUST G, 1984 PAGE 16 APPEAL NO , 8-1-84 THE Board of Zoning Appeal: considered the appeal of Cornell University for a sign variance for non-conformities under Sections 34 . 4, paragraph F and 14 . 8, paragraph A of the Sign Ordinance to permit the placement of a sign at the corner of Sage Place and East Seneca Street, within the East Seneca Street right-of-way . The decision of the Board was as follows : MS . C:OOKINGHAM: I move: that the Board of Zoning Appeals deny the requested sign variance in appeal number 8-1-84 . MS . BAGNARDl : I second the motion . PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT : 1 .! The identification problem can be met by a city installed street sign and conforming signs on the buildings that are to be identified . 2) Concerning the proposed location; there is nothing in the Sign Ordinance to encourage the Board of Zoning Appeals to allow private signs to be placed in the public: right-of- way and it would seem appropriate - lacking a more pressing need - not to allow this one . e MOTE : S YES ; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT REQUEST DENIED EZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 1984 PAGE 17 DISCUSSION OF THE BOARD AFTER THE MOTION WAS MAGE AND SECONDED - APPEAL N0 , 8- 1-84 MS , BAGNARCII ; What is the City policy on maintaining "no city street" signs? I mean, if a street sign . . . . MR . TOMLAN: There are certainly others in the city that are maintained that are private rights-of-way . MS . BAGNARCII : 1 know of many . Let ' s say this sign. . . . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Let ' s get this vote recorded - we can have a discussion not pertinent to the decision . SECRETARY H0ARD: The vote inappeal 8-1-84 is 5 Yes votes . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: So the appeal is denied . It would seem to me that the appellant might well ask: the city to assign safe places that have some other non-city streets that are within the neigh- borhood and might add the: one-way which would further , not only help direct traffic: but would further be an identification for someone remote from there trying to find the place and then the University has rights without permit to put certain signs on or near the building in their property, as you are probably aware and that the combination of those might well be very successful, in fact might be more successful than the proposed sign _ I ' d like to point out one ether thing . The City Traffic: Department is not restricted by the historic: district in the design of signs and designs signs for effectiveness and not be encumbered with what will blend with the neighborhood or the architecture nearby . MS . BISHOP: The city would not be restricted at all? CHAIRMAN WEAVER : The traffic . . . 62A MINUTES AUGUST 6, 1994 WAGE lei MS . BISHOP ! Even on a private right-of-way`:' CHAIRMAN WEAVEK The Traffic,• Department., in its design of signs is not restricted by the historic district . MS . BISHOP: When I call, will they say "that ' s your responsibility to put a sign on that street' Sage place . . . CHAIRMAN WEAVER.: The. Chair would like to make a motion for this Board that we encourage the City to place a traffic: control sign identifying Sage Place and identifying the one-way aspect of that public: way for the benefit of the public: and I would so move . MR . TOMLAN' Second . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: These in favor? 4 AYES There is no opposition and we will see that a communication is forwarded to the appropriate agency . May we have the neat case please? BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 1984 PAGE 19 i SECRETARY HOARD: The next appeal is appeal no . 1577 for 405 SOUTH ALBANY STREET : Appeal of William S . Downing, Ill for an area variance for a deficient front yard setback: under Section 30 . 25, Column 11 of the Zoning Ordinance to permit the conversion of the existing apartment house at 405 South Albany Street from three apartments to four apartments . The property is located in an R-3a (mul- tiple dwelling) use district in which the proposed use is permitted, however under Section 30 . 57 the appellant must obtain an area variance for the defi- cient front yard setback: before a build- ing permit or Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for the conversion . I don' t see anyone here representing this appeal . Appeal No . 1578 - 116 NORTH TITUS AVENUE : Appeal of Gerald L . and Martha L . 'Smith for an area variance for deficient lot area and deficient setbacks for the front yard and one side yard under Sec- tion 30 . 25, Columns 6. 11, and 12 of the Zoning Ordinance to permit the extension of the living portions of the one-family house at 116 North Titus Avenue into and over the existing front porch , The pro- pert, is located in an R-3a ( residen- tial., multiple dwelling) use district where the existing and proposed use as a single-family dwelling is permitted; however under Sections 30 . 49 and 30 . 57 the appellants must obtain: an area vari- ance for the listed deficiencies before a building permit or Certificate of Oc- cupancy can be issued for the enlarge- ment of the building . There is no one here: representing this appeal . Next . Appeal No . 1579 - 136 FAYETTE STREET Appeal of Henry and Mary Beth Fitzgerald for an area variance for a deficient BZA MINUTES AUGUST E, 1984 PAGE 20 sideyard for a frame accessory building under Section 30 . 42 and for lot coverage exceeding the maximum permitted and de- ficient setbacks for the front yard and one side yard under Section 30 . 15,, Col- umns 10, 11, and 13 of the Toning Ordi- nance, to permit construction of a new garage adjacent to the existing two-fam- ily dwelling at 136 Fayette Street . The property is located in an R-1b ( residen- tial,, one- and two-family dwelling) use district in which: the proposed use is permitted; however under Section 30 , 57 the appellants must obtain an area vari- ance for the listed deficiencies before a building permit can be issued for the new construction . MR . FIT76ERAL£D: I ' m Henry Fitzgerald . My wife, Mary Beth and I bought the house there last November and we have been busy work- ing on the: inside getting it fixed up and we actually weren' t going to do anything with the garage quite yet because ( unintel- ligible) we got a letter from Michael Dickerson, the inspector., and he cited it for being dangerous and it is fairly dangerous - I went in, I had gone in previously and nailed two by fours up diagonally because the garage is leaning heavily . Before we bought our house the neighbors tree; which was about two foot in diameter had fallen on the side of it and tilted the whole thing over , The roof of the garage - I think: you have some pictures there which show there is more open space than closed space - it is all rotted away and to repair the present structure it would be really unfeasible . Besides that my truck, which I use for work - I ' m a carpenter - is wider and longer than the garage by a little bit and even if I repaired what was there I wouldn' t be able to get my truck: inside . I spoke with Sten Curtis at Ithaca BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 1994 PAGE 21 Neighborhood Housing to see if they would be able to help out and they will be able to provide the financing for it . He suggested that as long as - our best best is to just build a new garage from scratch , We' d be better off moving it out toward the street closer - which would give us a little bit of yard space behind it so that we could have at least a picnic table back: there . Also that way it would actually look: better because looking at the =street - the houses alone the street - there is -between our house and the neighbors there: is a fairly large gap and it almost looks like a missing torah and bringing the garage out closer to the street would fill that in so that visually it would be better . However i don' t want to bring it out in line with the house because that would really crowd things at the street . And we wouldn' t have enough room really for parking . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Pardon me, but your proposal occasion is as indicated on this drawing? MR . FITZGERALD: That is right . The drawings: show exactly what we have in mind . And we would like to put in railroad ties with gravel for the driveway and for a walkaway . I have spoken with the neighbor and they have asked me to do the same on their side by putting in railroad ties: where there is now dirt and mud and gravel there also - so it would be a real nice improvement in the neighborhood . MS , FARRELL : I ' m a little confused - on this map . This is the existing (unintelligible) try and look: at it . This is your lot line right? BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6 , 1984 WAGE 22 MR . FITZGERALD : Right . MS , FAF'RELL : Now is this all the existing garage or ( unintelligible) . MR . FITZGERALD! It is: a two-car garage which is half ours and half the neighbors . MS . FARRELL : (okay, and it is one structure , okay . MR . FITZGERALD : Right . MR , TOMLAW I am assuming that you have the permission of the next door neighbor to tear down his half as well? MR . FITZGERALD : Yes . MR, TOMLAN: So we are: going to see him next month? MR . FITZGERALD: For tearing it down? MR . TOMLAN': No, for putting up a garage on his lot . MR. FITZGERALD: He is not interested in a garage . MR . TOMLAN: I see. I am ,just a little concerned with your moving things forward in that you state in your application that you are: providing parking, not only for yourself but the: other occupant, the other person, the: ether family in the house . MR . FITZGERALD : Right . MR'. . TOMLAN: And I guess ghat concerns me is the fact that presumably you would park, one: in back: of the other . MR . FITZGERALD: No . Side by side . MR. . TOMLAN: Side by side . I see. I was wondering if in fact with the space in front of the garage, you would have: enough space to park: a car and still not overhang the sidewalk, that was my - that was where I was leading . BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 1984 WAGE 23 MR , FITZGERALD: There is, I believe., seventeen feet from the front of the: garage to the sidewalk , The largest station wagon is about fifteen feet . MS . FARRELL : So you are required to have two parking spaces and in here you do provide the two parking spaces . MR . FITZGERALD : That ' s right . CHAIRMAN WEAVER! Well technically there would be three in his proposal , Two new ones on the gravel and one in the garage. MR , FITZGERALD: I believe Peter considered the one in front of the garage as a right-of-way to the garage, CHAIRMAN WEAVER ! Don' t worry about it . I ' m not recommending it, I am just saying it is long enough . Are there any questions? MR . FITZGERALD: I don' t know if it has anything to do with the zoning variance or anything but we intend to put a fence around it also . I didn' t mention, it - the privacy fence that INHS suggested, the dotted line which runs down the property line. In order to put a fence right on the property line, do we - all that we need is the neighbor ' s permission`' Is that true? SECRETARY HOARD : Right . MR . FITZGERALD : Okay . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: One question on our workup sheet that indicates a deficiency in Column: 13 - that ' s a measurement that has to do with . . . SECRETARY HOARD: That is counting accessory - there are two front yards and then this side yard . CHAIRMAN WEAVER' And which side yard is what I am trying to BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 1984 FACIE 24 identify . SECRETARY HOARD; Well it Will be the: yard to the: east because the rear yard is the side opposite the street address , CHAIRMAN WEAVER; So this is a rear -yard:' So this is the line along Fayette Street on the north? SECRETARY HOARD : Yes . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: To the other members of the Board, what I - this: isn' t ti-a private conversation up here but I am trying to determine that both Column 11 and 13 not be exacerbated by the granting of this variance . SECRETARY HOARD : Yes., that is correct . CHAIRMAN WEAVEK The: only increase would be percentage of lot which is; forty-two percent - forty-two point eight instead of forty . MR . TOMLAN: (unintelligible) the square footage increase in the garage? CHAIRMAN WEAVER : Apparently or half of the garage, more precisely . SECRETARY HOARD: If you don' t count the holes in the existing roof . CHAIRMAN WEAVER! But I am saying that in two columns there would not be an exacerbation of the deficiency and then the third it is a matter of two point eight percent as 1 read it . Are there any further questions? Thank you . MR . FIT2GERALD : Thank you . SECRETARY HOARD ! You all received a copy of the letter from the 8ZA MINUTES AUGUST 6., 1984 PAGE 26 APPEAL NO. 15:9 - 136 FAYETTE STREET The Board consider-ed the appeal cif Henry and Mary Beth Fitzgerald for an area variance for a deficient sideyard for a frame accessory building unclFr Section '210 , 42', and for, lot coverage exceeding the maximum permitted and deficient setbacks for the front yard and one side yard under Section 10 , 215.. Columns 10 , 11 ; and 1 , of the. Zoning (Irdinance, to permit construction of a new garage adjacent to the existing two-family dwelling at 135 Fayette Street , The decision of the Board was as follows : MS . FARRELL , I move that the Board grant the area variance requested in appeal number- 1579 . MR . TOMLAN: I second the motion . PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT : 1 :l This: cconstruc:tion doesn' t significantly exacerbate the current ricn-conforming aspects of the property . 2) The proposed garage will replace a current rion-conforming and dangerous structure . , 3) The owner would have practical difficulties in building a smaller garage since it would not be large enough to house his present vehicle . VOTE , YES". 0 NO; 1 ADSENT VARIANCE GRANTED BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 1984 PAGE 27 DISCUSSION OF THE BOARD AFTER VOTE WAS TAKEN ON APPEAL NO , 1579 . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: The app=eal is granted . Before adjournment there is a . . , SECRETARY HCF.ARDi Excuse me,, I ' d ,just like to mention for the record that no one was here for appeal number 1577, 1578 or 1586 . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: So the "no-shows" are 1577 for 405 S . Albany Street, appeal number 1578 for 116 N . Titus Avenue and 1580 for 805-807 N. Cayuga ':street, so hold on to these for neat month , A copy of this letter- was addressed to me as Chairman of this Board and it asked for reaction and comment on the attached memo and the memo is a proposal for appellants and others interested in zoning appeals, from the Board of Planning and Development re- garding the new interim procedures for review of zoning appeals and it is a suggested letter that will go out with each applica- tion, I guess, to warn appellants that their ease may or may not / be considered by the Planning and Development Board but rather will be reviewed only if and the: key phrase, I believe, is that "the ease has lone-range planning implications:" SECRETARY HOARD ! Excuse me, Charlie, the appellant would also have to send that to all the people required to be notified . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Yes, and the: point beim that at least for an interim period of time the Planning and Development Board is ex- perimenting with the: possibility of not considering every single zoning variance case . And exactly !'tow that will finally be worked out is still to be seen . But they are trying to avoid a BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 1984 PAGE 23 specific: review of every case , The substitute possibilities and I am not reading out of the communication but the possibilities are that staff review ,/_<.f certain routine cases that do not have substantive planning issues: involved will be merely reviewed by staff and passed on without comment to this Board as essentially what happened hese but exactly how they decade what is to be con- =sidered and what is not to be considered and just exactly flow to notify everybody has not been finally worked out . So I this Board was not circularized on this: but I ' ll read from the memor- andum, not from the letter they are proposing , "Your reaction and comment on the attached memo is requested, suggestions for revision or addition are welcome. Tom Hoard points out that at least if this procedure becomes permanent some evision to section 30 , 58C of the Ordinance would be in order to reflect it . Since it is my impression that we are not as ;ret wedded to this way of doing business, things are tending in this; direction we are still working out the proc:es:s, on a trial basis, hence the use of inter- im. Please let me hear from you by the 17th of August so that this: memo notice can be finalized and reproduced for distribution with the appellant ' s notices of August and September appeals which have a cut off elate of August 22nd . Beginning with this batch of appeals. Thys: and/or Meigs will perform the initial task: winnowing and will notify the Codes and Administration committee if any substantiae planning wheat falls out so that the Committee can meet the: Wednesday before. the Board meeting if necessary . '' MS . FARRELL : Aren' t they even going to meet, I mean don' t they BZA MINUTES AUGUST G, 1984 PAGE 29 have other business to do? CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well, some of the: background is that the Char- ter Revision Commission made a number of recommendations;., one of which had to do with the activities of the Planning and Develop- ment Board and it recommended that they not be concerned with every minor variance but rather with broader issues and reading rather- narrowly their charge in the Zoning Ordinance encourages them to try this: procedure. I am merely keeping you posted on where we are and why the rather brief letter from them this month . SECRETARY HOARN There is also frustration on the part of the members of the Planning Board . They go through this process in hearing a number of appeals: and then have to do their other planning things, which would usually end up late at night and then they would wait and get the results of the BZA decisions and then (unintelligble) MS . BAGNARDI : How often did we disagree with their findings? Do you know off-hand how many? CHAIRMAN WEAVER! Well there is a variety - without arriving at i any official score. There were times when we might have agreed substantially on a yes or no basis but where they had a lengthy discussion about screening or s:treets:c:ape or a number of planning words that don' t necessarily impress: a BZA which is directed by the laws of the state and by different tests., so that they did exert a substantial effort on some eases and we didn' t condition every approval to reflect that . I think: - again, without their BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6,, 1984 PAGE std being precisely well informed on the basis upon which we might grant or deny a variance, that they oftentimes were enthusiastic; about a good project versus; a bad project, where the tests that we use don' t exactly identify white hats and black: hats as far projects; are concerned . We are different enterprises and to as- sume that we would fly in the same formation all the time is ask- ing a bit too much anyway . I would certainly not want to be on this: Board and be doing violanc:e to basic planning principals but I think: our loyalty is more narrowly to the Ordinance itself and I hope I am not expected to ,judge other qualities of projects . I am certainly not qualified to do so . MR , TOMLAN; I agree with everything you have said and I agree in general that the direction that they want to go is the correct one. I ' m unsure and I ' m somewhat uneasy with the notion of going into an interim situation from their point of view and it is their problem., which isn' t well defined - any better defined, in fact worse defined than ghat they are coming out of., in a sense . It appears to me that at times;, while we haven' t found what they have brought to light terribly useful, there have been times when the discussion which they have: gore off upon has been useful in incidentally or accidentally or sometimes unpurposefully dis- covering or ferreting out information which we later pursue. I have found, and I would like to go on record as saying, very use- ful, on occasion, the minutes; of the Planning and Deve:lopement Board and it leaves me a little disconcerted, in a sense, a lit- tle uneasy, not knowing what the criteria are for their determin- BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 1934 PASSE 31 ation of long-range planning objectives further having to deal with Planning Departments more often than I even care to at times . I kind of wander about short-term planning objectives and that too being undefined, in a sense . I don ' t have the solution but I ' m not ready., I guess., to go on record as whole-heartedly endorsing their position because I don' t see where they are going yet , It _seems to me that if you have the sc:enerios that the RZA does where Tom is., in a sense: a chief administrative officer., or his designated appointee., has a certain set of confined rules so to speak:, to review and test an instance against - there are cer- tain regulations, there are certain guidelines that it becomes, in a sense, very clear for Tom: or at least clearer than it does certainly in planning, to find out what is something that should be brought to the BBA versus something which, in a sense, is within the bounds of his responsibility . All I would ask:, in a sense, and again it is their problem, but I am uneasy with the way in which they are proceeding is to define the responsibili- ties of the administrative official, what is not parallel to, perhaps in a sense parallel to Tom' s job in the Planning Depart- ment, which would be Thy=_:, I would assume . I ' m not sure that Thys takes every individual instance, in fact I am almost posi- tive he doesn' t take every instance and compare it against long- range planning objectives . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well, you see, I think: there might be a step here, in high theory there is a community master plan and the Zoning Ordinance drives that master plan and says this is what we DZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 1984 PAGE 32 allow and this is how thing: are going to be . MR . TOMLAN' Well you know as well as I do Charles, now when was that master plan done last, as I remember? CHAIRMAN WEAVEK Well., however, when you yet down to the mundane month by month problem - do you get in a fight about side yard setbacks, how critically necessary are they and how valuable are they to the community and to a master plan? I don' t think: you would ever end up with a satisfactory answer . It ' s a basic prin- cipal at least in most Ordinances of this (unintelligible) I un- derstand to have rear yard and side yard and front yard set backs and that they vary depending upon the: use allowed in the zone from residential to more dense use to business to commercial to industrial and so on . In each case there still are set back: re- quirements of some sort but they have a different implication and may do more mischief, more or less mischief depending on the zone and the percentage of variance granted, if you grant side yard variances to the - ignore them totally in a residential zone you end up with no side yards and no access to back: yards . You have row houses , In Boston, Philadelphia, or whatever, the only way to the back; yard is through the apartment . That extreme in a residential area in a city of this sort would obviously have a negative impact upon what we recognize as residential standards here . Okay, now everybody get in a room and agree and they► start to say that five feet is the minimum and we ' ll hold right there and we' ll never- grant an exception to it - that ' s what we are for to make good judgments where practical difficulties , uniqueness_: BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6 , 1984 PACE 33 of the situation, or whatever, means that enjoyment of the indi- vidual ' s property requires some tinkering with these absolutes . Now I don' t know that you could get two planners to say nothing about a room full of them to agree on exactly when we should not . In fact, it wouldn' t do us any good anyway because our review is not by planners• but by judges and so we might tetter read Ander- son than react the City of Ithaca Planning and Development Board. If" we are worrying about whether we are doing the right thing or not, in that sense•, but to use their judgement on what they would identify as serious planning issues is quite a thing and I don' t know who could do that other than a professional in reviewing case by ease. I ' m not saying that wh►at you are asking for is impossible, there never has beer► a set criteria that I ' ve heard of• that the Planning Beard was driven by anymore than the Plan- ning staff• for deciding such issues as they apply to the Zoning Ordinance . Well, we are in it and I would appreciate it if you would convey your own thoughts to Mr . Kramnick and Mr . VanC.ort and anyone else that will listen . MS . BAGNARDI : Khat if they don' t agree with some of• these that come to us•, is there any way that if we do feel that a case that comes before us does have long-range - car► we judge that? CHAIRMAN WEAVER: You may if you wish., I ' m going to avoid it . MS . BAGNARDI ! But czar► we as a group? If three of• us or four of us - if a majority decades• this particular instance is indeed a long range planning issue? C`.HAIRMAN WEAVER: Well if we had something that has city-wide BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6 , 1934 PAGE 34 implication in defense - if there should be a Sign Ordinance and we should have some place in which we say they shall not pass, I would think: that there was a basic: one tonight - should private signs be allowed in the public: right-of-way? MR . TOMLAN. Well you see that is exactly where I come in. I believe that that is a planning issue, quite frankly . I believe that it is a long-range planning issue, and quite frankly I be- lieve the Board of Planning and Development abrogated their re- sponsibility in passing upon it without comment . Now I am will- ing to sit here and go according to the laws and the charges givers and make these sort: of .judgments as are my responsibility with or without their comment but I do appreciate their comment and I do think: insofar as bringing up helpful suggestions and hints along the way that their comments have on occasion been useful whether they see it or we agree with it or not . Further I would say that while area variances as a rule - small area vari- ance of one sort or another - may not be a tremendous_: imposition . I would almost automatically begin to think: about use variances as being referred back: to them, regardless of whether they think: it is their duty or not, to think: about it . If they don' t, quite frankly, in my view, if they don' t think: a use variance in some sense impacts long-range planning and development they are cer- tainly being irresponsible . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well we haven' t had that test yet because this month there were no voters so this is the first month in which, they have even approached this problem and I agree with you that BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 1984 PAGE 35 almost every case of a use variance, and I think: also, in the special permit section , , if they don' t have some sense of where they think: the development of the: community is headed., this is a pretty hat job that we have here . MR . TOMLAN: Well beyond that, I mean there are cases where we have seen small area variances coming before us over long periods of time - small things - but nevertheless their accumulative im- pact has struck: us as being rather significant for planning and development . And, in fact., it has been an incremental change which in fact., we noticed. I ' m not completely convinced that automatically coming up against a set of what the staff believes yes or no can be without any guidance or written on paper policy that is: consistent over a long period of time., I can' t believe if they are just going to pass: them by as not important, they are not missing an awful loot of what they should be paying attention to and that is planning and development . I ' m just uneasy, Charlie, it is not that I disagree with the coverall intent and it is not that what your special committee has done has been in any way wasted., I think: you are right on target, I am just very un- easy about the way in which they are proceeding and that is to adopt a policy which in essence is no policy for the interim, in my judgement . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well I ' d like to second one thing that you' ve said., the incremental effect - off-street parking . We apparently have: two policies: - at least reading the newspaper - one a policy in which the City provides off-street parking in congested areas BLA MINUTE:, AUGUST 6, 1984 PAGE '36 and requires private property owners to provide it ever-ywher-e else . Now,, how you decide you are on one area in one location of the City arid have that obligation as a private property owner irk others, is beyond me arad it certainly - everytime there is an off-street parking variance, it Would neem to me that we would benefit from their repeated direct .ion - whatever that might be and I don' t see those zones as being very clearly defined. In fact., recently they have been defined in an ad-hoc: manner which doesn' t clear- things: up at all . All right, the sense of these comments - I ' ll trey arid relay to Mr- . Meigs . We have: the public; here . MR, EIT2GERAL€ , I 'm c:ur,ious, if they send cases on to You arid you look: at it and you can' t do anything about it from the toning perspective but you think: it is something they should look: at Is there a provision that you cart send it back: to them? CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well the Planning Board is advisory only to ass on variances., so if you., as: an owner ask: to do something that the Ordinance does riot allow, the Building Gommissiorter doers: not have authority to say well this is a little: bit of sin, we' ll let you cto it, he massa turrt you down arid send it to this Board and the Ctrc[inarsce directs the F'lartrtirag and Development Board to advise us but we are not bound by thein advice and therein lies the difficulty between two lay boards trying to do a food ,job and not always agreeing , We are it . Is there any fur-therr business to bring before the Board': Mfg . BAGNARDI : The September meeting date? BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, ISS4 PAGE 37 CHAIRMAN WEAVER: September meeting date. It has been described as beim the loth of September . MS : BAGNARDI : And you are not going to be here? CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I 'm not going to be here but what did you say Bette? MS . BAGNARDI : You are not going to: be here? CHAIRMAN WEAVER: No, but that is all right , SECRETARY HOARD: And I ' m not going to be here. MS . BAGNARDI : We can' t get along without both of you . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: All four of you can be here? And Dick Booth will be here? MS . RUANE : He told us at the last meeting that he could be here September 10th . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well let ' s try it next mor►th. I think: our original trouble was Labor Clay, which was Monday . So that ' s out and then► taking the 4th, Fath, 6th, 7th - those are the: four dates I ' m going to be here but I am going to leave on the morning of the loth. But whether the rest of you and whether Booth -- MR. TOMLAN: Car► we do it Wednesday, Charlie? CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Not in this room, City Council meeting . MR. TOMLAN. How about City Court? CHAIRMAN WEAVER : Probably . MS . FARR.ELL : I won' t be here . I 'm taking the two weeks off . SECRETARY HOARD: I am coming back: the second Tuesday . MS . BAGNARDI : How about the 11th or the 12th? CHAIRMAN WEAVER.: What ' s the matter with the loth? Everybody is BZA MINUTES AUGUST 6, 19a4 PAGE 38 here for the 10th except Tom and me . MR . TGMLAN: Go with the 10th and see what happens . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Just think:., you will also get a chance to elect a chairman . MS , BAGNARDI : That ' s the problem. Mike doesn' t want to chair . CHAIRMAN WEAVES'.: This meeting hasn' t ad,jorned,, you can elect him tonight, I think: . I don' t know, I ' d have to read the rules . SECRETARY HOARD: You can elect Dick: Booth tonight , MR , TGMLAN: Wonderful idea . MS . BAGNARDI ! Why don' t we do that? MR. TGMLAN: All in favor? 4 AYES . Sure, we' ve done it . CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Next time he decides to goof off, he' ll know what to expect , We stand adjorned , - 39 - I , BARBARA RUANE, DO CERTIFY THAT I took the minutes of the Board of Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca New York, in the matters of Appeals numbered 8-1-84 and 1579 on August 6, 1984 in the Common Council Chambers, City of Ithaca, 108 East Green Street, Ithaca, New York, that I have transcribed same, and the foregoing is a true copy of the transcript of the minutes of the meeting and the action taken of the Board of Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York on the above date, and the whole thereof to the best of my ability. Barbara C. Ruane Sworn to before me this day of 1984 Notary Public