HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1984-05-07 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK
MAY 7, 1984
TABLE OF CONTENTS
page
APPEAL NO. 1553A Robert Leathers, Architect 2
216 & 218 Second Street
APPEAL NO. 1553A Action of the Board 27
APPEAL NO. 1558 Robert Leathers, Architect 3
119 Third Street
APPEAL NO. 1558 Action of the Board 28
APPEAL NO. 1559 David and Seymour Turk 29
323-29 College Avenue
APPEAL NO. 1559 Action of the Board 36
APPEAL NO. 1561 Robert M. Wallace 37
119 Irving Place
APPEAL NO. 1561 Action of the Board 40
APPEAL NO. 1562 Ithaca Neighborhood Housing Services, Inc. 41
301 South Geneva Street (Henry St. John School)
APPEAL NO. 1562 Action of the Board 45
APPEAL NO. 1563 W & B Supply Company 46
618 West State Street
APPEAL NO. 1563 Action of the Board 62
APPEAL NO. 1564 Craig and Keith Schaufler 63
321 College Avenue
APPEAL NO. 1564 Action of the Board 72
CERTIFICATION OF RECORDING SECRETARY 73
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 1
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK
MAY 7, 1984
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I ' ll call this hearing to order . First, the
members of the Board present tonight :
Jean Cookingham
Bette Bagnardi
Tracy Farrell
Michael Tomlan
Richard Booth
Charles Weaver, Chairman
Thomas D. Hoard, Secretary to the
Board k Building Commissioner
Barbara Ruane, Recording Secretary
This hearing is conducted under the provisions of the City Char-
ter of the City of Ithaca and of the provisions of the Zoning
Ordinance. The Board shall not be bound by strict rules of evi-
dence in the conduct of the hearing but the determination shall
be founded upon sufficient legal evidence to sustain the deci-
sion. We request that all participants identify themselves as to
name and address and for yours and our convenience, if you will
come up and make use of these - either of these two chairs that
are vacant . The microphones will directly connect you with the
tape recorder . They have an off/on switch that you will have to
operate. We will first hear all of the cases in the order in
which they are listed on the official notice . We' ll hear first
the appellant and anyone who wishes to speak in support of the
application. Following that., anyone who wishes to oppose. On
completing the hearing of those interested in the case, the Board
will then deliberate, take action., arrive at Findings of Fact .
8ZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 2
So there won' t be any question about it at a later time, once the
Board has heard all of the testimony, the Board is in session and
sometimes the conversation among the Board members will stimulate
someone who has already spoken - to straighten us out or further
enlighten us - or whatever their objective is . By that time the
Chair is reluctant to hear any more, so come up, speak up, say
your piece., hope you've said everything, and bear with us that we
don' t have a carry-on debate the second time around. There are
several cases - as I said., they will be heard in the order in
which they were listed - we' ll have the first case .
SECRETARY HOARD: The first case Mr . Chairman is appeal number
1553 for 216 8 218 SECOND STREET :
Appeal of Robert Leathers., Architect, for
a use variance under Section 30 . 25,
Columns 2 and 3 of the Zoning Ordinance,
and an area variance under Section 30 . 25,
Column 11 for a deficient front yard set-
back, to permit the use of the house at
216 Second Street for a day care center
plus residential unit, and the vacant lot
at 218 Second Street for a parking lot
serving patrons and employees of the
Ithaca Fitness Center at 119 Third Street .
The properties, which are to be combined,
are located in an R-3b ( residential, mul-
tiple-dwelling) use district in which the
proposed day care center is a permitted
use and the parking lot is not a permitted
use. The appellant must obtain a use var-
iance before a permit can be issued for
the parking lot, and must obtain an area
variance for the deficient front yard be-
fore a certificate of occupancy can be
issued for the new use of the house for a
day care center . A part of this appeal,
the request to use the house at 216 Second
Street for a day care center, was granted
by the Board at its April 2, 1984 meeting .
The appellant is returning with the re-
quest for a variance for the parking lot
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 3
at 218 Second Street .
MR . SMITHSON: My name is Frank Smithson, I ' m a lawyer
representing the Fitness Center and I have an office at 109 W .
Seneca Street . Are we considering Appeal No. 1558 as well - that
is for a mezzanine and the main portion of the Fitness Center
building., or, is that in a different order?
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well 1553., the parking lot, I believe has -
does 1558 fall immediately on the agenda?
SECRETARY HOARD: Yes. We can do those together .
MR. SMITHSON: Perhaps Mr . Hoard, just ask: preliminaries about
that and we can deal with them together .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Unless I hear from the Board to the contrary,
we would be glad to hear them both - there may be
(unintelligible) when we deliberate we will reed to separate them
in that there may be a perception that one is an area variance
and the other is a use variance. I ' m not sure about that .
MR. SMITHSON: At this point - oh, excuse me.
SECRETARY HOARD: Why don' t I read the other- appeal into the
record? APPEAL NO. 1558., 119 THIRD STREET
Appeal of Robert Leathers., Architect, for
a use variance under Section 30 . 25, Column
2 and an area variance for a deficient
rear yard under Section 30. 25, Column 14
of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the
addition of a mezzanine floor within the
existing gymnasium at 119 Third Street
( Ithaca Fitness Center) . The property is
located in an R-3b ( residential, multiple
dwelling) use district in which a gymna-
sium is not a permitted use. The existing
use was !grandfathered, and a variance for
the large addition was granted by the BZA
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 4
in 1977 (#1150) . Under Sections 30 . 49 and
30 . 57 of the Zoning Ordinance use and area
variances must be obtained by the appel-
lant before a building permit or certifi-
cate of occupancy can be issued for the
enlargement of the non-conforming use and
structure. This appeal was tabled by the
Planning and Development Board at its
March 27, 1984 meeting .
MR . SMITHSON: If I may, I ' ll just take a couple of minutes to
bring you up to date. At its May meeting the Planning Board rec-
ommended approval of the entirety - of the remaining request of
the Fitness Center, with three conditions., the first being that
there be a cap of two thousand members with which the Fitness
Center has no quarrel, in fact I think that number was one that
the Fitness Center came up with on its own. The second was that
the Fitness Center continue to work with the professional plan-
ning staff" to deal with the problem of parking on a longer range
basis to help solve the problem of parking in the entire neigh-
borhood. Third was that the Fitness Center get together for one
additional meeting with neighbors from the area. There were six
or seven of those neighbors of whom Mrs . Buick, who is in the
audience was one - I don't know whether any of the others are
here - and I was present as a listener and Bob Martin and
Ray Schlather shared the task of moderating that . There was some
detailed discussion about the plans for the parking lot and if
I may, I will just tell you the concerns that the neighbors
brought up and we reached agreement on most of them. The neigh-
bors wanted, and Bob of course agreed, to keep the tree in the
middle of the parking lot . The neighbors wanted a three foot
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 5
fence on the Madison Street side of the parking lot and the Fit-
ness Center- was agreeable to that . The neighbors were concerned
that the entrance to the parking lot be wide enough to accommo-
date two cars abreast and the Fitness Center- agrees with that .
The neighbors said that they would like for- the lights of the
parking lot itself to be on all night long, and the Fitness Cen-
ter agreed with that . Two of the other- recommendations were
aimed at the long-teem parking problem. The first is that the
Fitness Center, has suggested that the proper- city authorities
take the following action: that now on Third Street and Madison
Street there is parking on only one side of the street - that in
each case that is the side across from the Gym Center . We had
suggested that the Board of Public Works, I think, would be the
appropriate city authority - but the appropriate authority change
that parking so that the one side that you can park on is right
in front of the Gym Center- so that anybody who is blocking the
driveway it is the Gym Center' s driveway that is being blocked
and it is the Gym Center- that puts up with the inconvenience.
Mr-s . Quick, however, owns a garage on Madison Street and has
told us that there is no way her- wr-ecker-s can operate if there is
parking on the Gym Center- side of Madison Street, so now our sug-
gestion will be that there be parking only on the Gym Center side
of Third Street in the one hundred block, where the Gym Center
is, and that parking on Madison Street stay the way it is . The
neighbors had also suggested that Mr- . Martin enter into a lease
with the owner- of Hancock: Plaza so that his customers could park
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 6
down there. Bok► has done that - on May 1st he entered a lease
with the owner of Hancock: Plaza 'and now Ithaca Center customers
can park there and Bob' s parking monitors are making every effort
to see that they do park there. That 's the status of the thing
now. We maintain that it will not change the character of the
neighborhood and there is something of an economic hardship in-
volved insofar as these improvements are designed to help Bob
stay competitive in what is becoming an increasingly competitive
business . We think these improvements will help him do so and
ensure his continued economic: health and we thank you.
MS . FARRELL : Are you going to talk about the mezzanine as well?
MR. SMITHSON: Yes . There was no discussion among the neighbors
of the mezzanine. No one so far as I know has had any quarrel
with it and Bob has not seen any necessity to make any changes in
his plans there. Steve Blais., the architect who has designed the
thing will be here to answer questions about that., if you have
any .
MS . FARRELL : I have another question about the parking lot . I
understand it has changed to allow more cars to park there . Do
you have a map showing how the cars will park in there?
MR. SMITHSON: Yes I do., in fact Steve has a bunch of copies for
each of you. If that is your last question,, may I yield to him
and he can pass those things around .
MR . BOOTH: Don ' t go away .
MR . SMITHSON: Okay., I won' t yield to him, but he can still pass
them around .
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 7
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: We hope to listen to you one at a time.
MR. BLAIS: Okay. My name is Steven Blais of 207 W. Clinton
Street . I work for Robert Leathers., the architect, whose offices
are at 909 Wyckoff Road and just to continue where Frank left
off, I have copies here of the parking layout as it was shown to
the Planning and Development Board and in addition to that is a
landscaped plan prepared by Cayuga Landscape Company which Mr .
Martin is prepared to go ahead with and also copies of the lease
for rights to park on portions of the Hancock Plaza parking lot .
MS . FARRELL : How many spaces are leased there?
MR. BLAIS : I should defer- to Bob Martin to answer that question
because the lease describes it as the southwest portion of
Hancock Plaza and I don' t know the number of spaces exactly.
MR. MARTIN: All of the Plaza with the exception in front of the
Short Stop that will be in business at the time when the parking
lot will be used. About three-quarters of the parking lot, I
would say .
MS . FARRELL : Do you have time restrictions (unintelligible)
MR . MARTIN: No time restrictions . .
MS . FARRELL : So it would be all day long or whenever - however
many hours you are open?
MR. MARTIN: Yes, right .
MS . FARRELL : And how long is that lease for?
MR . MARTIN: One year .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I ' m trying to sort this out - in designing the
mezzanine, the application refers to safety . Is there - what is
RZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 8
safer about a mezzanine then what you have now?
MR . MARTIN: As it is, now., we have a group of machines - bar
bells., dumbbells, bicycles and everything on the main floor - it
I
is very crowded for people are hitting each other and everything
like that . By putting a mezzanine in we can take the machines,
place them overhead and spread the area out so that we will not
have to worry about people hitting things . A machine will take
one person - regardless of whether it is downstairs or upstairs .
We don't intend to enlarge - as an example - the aerobics area
which requires a lot of people - we are just simply changing the
structure of the pattern where the people can go so they are not
so crowded .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: But I see this addition as adding fifteen
hundred square feet to the occupied space?
MR. MARTIN: Approximately. I would say four by fifty-eight feet
actually .
MS . BAGNARDI : What is the average number of people that you will
have there?
MR . MARTIN: At one time? About one hundred and a half .
MR . BOOTH: What is your current membership?
MR. MARTIN: Anywhere between fifteen and seventeen hundred.
MR. BOOTH: So you are talking about expanding your membership by
up to one-sixths to two thousand .
MR. MARTIN: We have already almost hit it . We were one thousand
nine hundred during our peak time. We' ll lose seven hundred in
two weeks .
RZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 9
MR. BOOTH: Because of students .
MR . MARTIN: Because of students, yes .
MR. BOOTH: Your current membership is around seventeen hundred?
MR . MARTIN: Yes .
MS . BAGNARDI : When is the peak time of day?
MR. MARTIN: Between five and seven. Say five fifteen and sever►
thirty .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: To the three of you,, and I don' t care who ad-
dresses this but as I understand it, the granting of a use vari-
ance and both the parking lot - which is a (unintelligible)
neighborhood and the proposal is to use it for a commercial park-
ing lot and the expansion of the interior- of the Fitness Center
itself is an increase in the non-conforming use. It usually re-
quires some demonstration of hardship and although (unintelligi-
ble) business or any information other than a statement that it
is a competitive business that would help this Board recognize
the hardship and not make the variance (unintelligible) in other-
words in requiring (unintelligible)
MR. MARTIN: I used to be the only game in town. Sixteen years .
They since have put up a Racquet Ball Club which has a lot of
luxury type things to it -bars, racquet balls, restaurants, Jacu-
zzis, - the City Health Club they have since put up - with Jacuz-
zis, they have put up a new Nautilus Conditioning and Expanded
aerobics in the DeWitt Plaza. So most of these people are in
business and I guess ar-e doing very well . But to be competitive
you cannot take and squeeze all the equipment we have into the
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1§84 PAGE 10
amount of area that is now there. You will lose., basically, cus-
tomers because if it is too crowded they will simply say I ' m go-
ing somewhere else. And if you take the student population, when
they come in - they sort of dominate - you know what I mean?
Young people going all over the place. The mezzanine - all we
are doing is taking the equipment we have and placing it in an
area so that the professional people - the working people can
reserve a starting time, come in at the busy time such as between
five-fifteen and seven-thirty and if they have a starting time
say at seven o' clock: to go through these machines:., they could go
on the mezzanine and away from all the crowds that come in - and
it spreads the people out . We are not in any way wanting to in-
crease the membership because we already told you, we' ll cut it .
But that spreads everybody out and gives the professional people
a place to work out in a comfortable way and that is the whole
idea behind it .
MR . BOOTH: Are there any State standards for square footages in
these kinds of facilities?
MR . MARTIN: Not that I know of .
MR . BOOTH: So when you say it ' s crowded, this is your sense as
an operator? It is not according to any formula that you are
looking at for this space?
MR . MARTIN: It is very crowded now. I wish I could have invited
you down before the meeting .
MR . BOOTH: In terms of the parking lot, who will use the parking
lot?
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 11
MR . MARTIN: The members of the Center .
MR . BOOTH: Only the members of the Center?
MR, MARTIN: Yes .
MR. BOOTH : Will they pay a fee?
MR. MARTIN: No .
MR . BOOTH: It will be first come, first serve for whoever needs
a parking space?
MR. MARTIN: Yes .
MS . COOKINGHAM: Mr . Martin., could I pursue the parking issue a
little bit more . I ' ve just looked at this lease agreement that
you have . You say it is a years lease but it is terminable at
the option of the landlord - I mean, he could let you have it for
a mono► and they► that would be the end of it - so it really - I
hesitate to call it a years lease .
MR . MARTIN: It is just what Stu Lewis came up with.
MS . COOKINGHAM: I don't think it can be termed a year lease
however .
MR . BLAIS : I think: maybe I should ask a question of Frank
here, but I believe by common law, most leases are terminable on
thirty days notice by the landlord - maybe I ' m wrong . . . .
MR. SMITHSON: I don't think: that is unusual - it is certainly
true that it is terminable. There is very little incentive for
Stu Lewis to terminate it because he doesn' t use that portion of
his parking lot . In fact, Bob had made arrangements with other
tenants of Hancock Plaza - arrangements that have worked very
well - to use the Playa for parking - it was a suggestion of the
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 12
neighbors that (unintelligible) he talked with the owner himself .
SECRETARY HOARD: Frank., would you make sure that you are
speaking into the microphone?
MS . COOKINGHAM: The other instances that have come before the
Board, at my best recollection - where we have looked at leases,
they have not had such a provision in them - they have been
tight . Is that correct Mr . Hoard? Leases that we have been
looking at where we have required parking off the site?
SECRETARY HOARD: What they have had - they have had provision
that the Building Department be notified if the lease was going
to be terminated so that then we could void the certificate of
occupancy or whatever the condition happened to apply to. That
seems to be the best protection for us .
MR. SMITHSON: I would also like to suggest that - remind you
that the Planning Board did not include this as a condition of
their approval . This was something that Mr . Martin took on his
own in response to neighborhood concern. We would ask you not to
make a lease a condition of the variance because we feel it would
be more than you can reasonably ask: of human nature for• Bob to
have to negotiate with someone who knows that he has no choice
but to negotiate a lease. That would put him in a bargain
position that might well be untenable .
MS . COOKINGHAM: It happens all the time .
MR. SMITHSON: I know, but we don' t want it to happen to us .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: There is a fundamental question for the Board -
both the matter of the commercial use of the residential corner -
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 13
extension► of commercial use (unintelligible) - what damage will
result to the owner of the property if the variance were not
granted? I hear a general statement that it would not enhance
your competitive position with other people in the business - we
need more specific information (unintelligible)
MR. BLAIS: If I could ask the Hoard to look at the question of
hardship in a slightly different light . It seems to be a mutual
hardship here shared by the neighborhood and the Fitness Center ,
Initially Mr . Martin proposed to build a parking area essentially
on his own initiative for the convenience of his customers and
through the series of Planning Board meetings and the earlier
Zoning meeting it has come to light that the neighbors are con-
cerned that there is not enough off-street parking for the facil-
ity as it is, and has expressed its concern that it would like to
see more cars off" the street and through meeting with his neigh-
bors, Mr . Martin► has, for instance., answered the question would
the neighbors like to see a parking lot of fifteen cars or a par-
king lot of twenty cars and it seems that the consensus from the
last meeting was that they would rather see a parking lot of
twenty cars so with respect to the parking area, it seems to al-
leviate or move towards alleviating the hardship experienced by
the neighborhood and the kind of concern the neighborhood has had
about persons parking in front of driveways, things like that, is
actually a practical difficulty for the Ithaca Fitness Center
because they have to deal with it in one way or, another . For
instance, they are employing parking monitors and so on . So it ' s
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 14
a clear advantage to the Fitness Center to be accepted by the
neighborhood in which it exists and it is a hardship for it not
to .
MR. SMITHSON: Data are somewhat hard to come by in cases like
this but the parking problem has been an inconvenience for Bob' s
customers as well as for the neighbors and the crowding in the
gym that Bob has described has also been an inconvenience for his
customers . Now Bob knows that he has lost customers, he knows
that he has got at least four new competitors, and counting the
Y, since he went into business., two of whom are downtown and more
directly competitive with him. Now he is in no position to tell
you that a certain number of customers went to a certain competi-
tor nor why they went . He knows that he has gone from a maximum
of almost two thousand customers at the beginning of this year;
to fifteen hundred to seventeen hundred in the last few months .
It would be asking a lot to wait for him to be able to come in
and tell you that he is going to fold tomorrow, before granting a
variance of this kind. If he were in that position he wouldn' t
be in the position to make the improvements that are required .
He is looking to the future. He is using the best information
that is available to him. Unfortunately it is not hard data. I
think by the nature of the case, it can ' t be .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Are there any further questions from the Board?
MR. BOOTH: If you have one hundred fifty people there at any one
time., even if you assume that only two-thirds of them come by
automobile., twenty or twenty-five parking spaces isn' t going to
R7_A MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 15
make the difference that you seem to be suggesting the variance
will make. It may help but it is not going to alleviate the
parking problem in that part of the city .
MR . SMITHSON: It is the best., that and the Hancock Plaza lease,
seem about the best you can do .
MS . FARRELL : The additional problem., though., is that you are
expecting additional enrollment from seventeen hundred back up to
two thousand which might negate the parking .
MR. SMITHSON: What he would really like most to do is to keep it
at seventeen hundred .
MR . MARTIN: To answer . The Hancock Plaza basically has not been
used by our people at all - maybe one or two. It is always
empty. We are making a sign at the moment, a big huge sign in
the lobby as they come in., to please start using that, because
now we officially have a lease but it basically is spill-over
parking. Okay - and would be used probably only during the hours
between five fifteen and seven fifteen anyway .
MR. BOOTH: And again, how many people do you estimate will park
at Hancock, under this lease?
MR . MARTIN: It is almost unlimited except in front of that one
area, the Short-Stop .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Further questions? Thank you. Is there anyone
here who wishes to speak in support of this application? Is
there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to this
application? Come forward .
MRS . QUICK : I ' m Vita Quick., I live at 302 Madison Street . About
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 16
three and one-half years ago my husband passed away and I tried
to get a variance to have Terminal Taxi move in my garage. They
would have had - there wouldn' t have been that many people there
- maybe twelve cars at the most and I was turned down, yet when
Mr . Martin wanted to get the - get started - we didn' t object to
it but now that the business has got so big, why they are parked
all over - I mean they can' t even read signs - people that go
there. They park in my garage lot and it would be a hardship to
have the parking on the odd side of the street because wreckers
couldn' t eget in for the - my son and my brother-in-law to bring
cars in. And I 'm just bitter to think that I was turned down and
yet Terminal Taxi wouldn' t have anywhere near- the customers that
Mr . Martin has .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Thank you. Are there any questions of Mrs .
Quick?
MR. BOOTH The cars are brought to your property for what
reason?
MRS . QUICK : My son and my brother-in-law run the garage. The
one that my husband had .
MR. BOOTH : Okay, thank you .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in
opposition ?
MR. HARDESTY: I don't really wish to speak in opposition . . . I
wish to speak . . . .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well, sit down and tell us what you wish to
say .
HZA MINUTES OF MAY 7., 1984 PAGE 17
MR . HARDESTY: My name is Jim Hardesty and I live on Second
Street., near- to the Fitness Center . I have been dealing with this
situation and with Bob Martin and so on., for- a while - I guess
since back in Febr-uar•y over- this issue and we' ve . . .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: What address?
MR. HARDESTY: 309 Second Street is where I am - Jim Hardesty is
the name. And we've come a long way in dealing with all of the
things that have come up about the parking lot and about the
neighborhood and different things and I feel pretty good about
Bob and his set up there and the things that have tr-anspir-ed de-
finitely have not disappointed me, all in all, so I am in support
of basically what he is trying to do and all that and it seems to
be a neighborhood r•esour-c:e and so on., however- I would like to say
about the parking situation - several meetings - the last meeting
was last Thursday night in which we went over- a number• of things
and I think the people at the meeting definitely ar•e in favor of
having the parking lot there because it did contribute in some
way to the alleviation of the parking problem. Now it is only
twenty czars and I originally objected to the fifteen car- parking
lot that was first suggested by Mr . Martin and his associates to
deal with this because I felt at the time that the parking lot
would really not address the parking problem at all . I still
think: that twenty car- parking lot is still not going to address
the problem because there is an awful lot more cars than that
that park: there. But it is an effort to do something about it
and it is also something that I think Mr . Martin in his own
RZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 18
right needs for his business - that is something that is neces-
sary - I know he feels that way. A lot of us in the neighbor-
hood., of course., would not like to see a parking lot there just
because we would like to maintain the neighborhood quality of our
neighborhood which has come up a great deal in the past few years
- we really wouldn't want to see that happen but a lot of us feel
Mr . Martin is our neighbor so we sort of have to work something
out . Now we discussed this business about Hancock Plaza and what
we do with the very large parking resource down the block from
the Fitness Center and in any number of cases the people who park
at the Fitness Center in fact have to walk: a further distance
parking on the street than they actually would have to walk from
the Hancock: Plaza - so - in a sense that being able to use that
Plaza certainly should not present any real difficulty for any-
body to walk from that parking lot over- to the building . Now we
did discuss the situation where some people - ladies in particu-
lar - might be daunted a bit in the evening to just park a block
away and walk: in the dark., and so on, which is understandable but
there is a lot of people that park there that are students and so
on, that could easily make that walk: and are - as Mrs . quick said
- they are really not interested in reading signs, they are just
interested in a quick parking spot and so on. So it presents a
kind of a difficult problem. Now I know Mr . Martin has gone down
and gotten a lease with them and even before he went down and
spoke with the people about arranging a way that he could, with
their permission, park: his overflow of cars down there and it has
RZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 19
not been successful and it hasn' t been successful for the lack of
Bob Mar-tin' s effort to try to do something about it, but it has
not really worked out and I am at a loss for actually a way to
exhort people to go there and park: there. But the thing is that
with this twenty car- parking lot and so on, what is sticking in
my craw.. I guess., is the fact that this problem still exists and
now is a rather lower eb of the traffic problem because students
are finishing up and studying for exams and so on, but the real
problem that exists in a very heavily - is at the very beginning
of the semesters and so on., there is just a tremendous amount of
cars . I ' ve gone out and taken a look at the number of cars and I
would say a conservative estimate of cars parked on the street is
about fifty-five so -arid it goes up from there - I ' ve seen it up
a lot higher than that . So., I guess what I am saying is that - I
know you had some questions about the lease that was mentioned -
I know that at the meeting., Ray Schlather was there that evening,
and we discussed a number of things about some sort of permanent
idea about that lease or some sort of resolution on the part of
us all that that possibility for parking is not going to vaporize
at any one second. I mean., we all in the neighborhood have chil-
dren and so on, that idea alone - it is a lot of traffic there -
a lot of people going around. It is a concern of ours and we -
as has been determined - I think the determination by the Plan-
ning Board and Bob himself volunteered that his membership would-
n' t go over- two thousand. I would like to see some kind of a
determination► about just this Hancock Plaza thing and what we are
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 20
going to do about that - I spoke with Bob and we talked that he
is going to work on it some more and we are going to try to come
up with some ideas to kind of - I don' t like to use the word
force - but to help people to understand the necessity of going
down there and parking for the good of the neighborhood and for
the over-all good of the relationship of the Fitness Center and
its future and so on like that . I guess before you all and the
Board members and the public: here., I guess my meaning basically
in what I am saying is.. I really don't want to sort of let this
go and in six months or a year see that really, you know, the
parking problem is getting - is as big as ever, and in fact, there
is no - you know -safety valve there or anything to deal with and
that is something I wish I could say, here is the idea - I don' t
have that idea -but some kind of permanency - some kind of reso-
lution on that I think: is important that that option be open -
the parking lot -for a years lease or something. The parking
problem is big and we are all concerned about it for a number of
reasons - not only our children playing there and stuff but also
trying to maintain - you know - the neighborhood character of
our neighborhood. And Mr . Martin, definitely., in my opinion,
has gone a great distance to ensure that that is going to be a
well landscaped and certainly the architects have done a good job
I mean., we definitely - he has had an open ear• to all the neigh-
bors in terms of designing that and trying to go along and make
it look good, so I definitely feel very good about that . So I
guess I am saying the parking problem still - I don' t know what
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 11
to do about it but some sort of thing - the Hancock Plaza parking
resource - it just makes me feel bad that if there is a huge -and
that really is a large parking facility there - it just lies un-
used while the streets are jammed with czars - it is ,just not a
good balance and I would like to see something - you know - more
permanent resolved about what is going to happen with that .
Thank you very much .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in
opposition to this appeal?
MS . STONE : Hi . My name is Sheila Stone and I live at 305 Second
Street . I too understand the complexity of trying to run a
business and also trying to deal with the neighborhood.
Basically my feelings - my thoughts about it is that - I ' ve lived
in that neighborhood for three years and I ' ve really enjoyed
living there and I would like to protect the residential quality
of that neighborhood and a parking lot., while it might help a
little bit in the business., doesn't seem like it is going to help
a whole lot and once a parking lot is there., it ' s there and it is
very difficult to get it back out again and there is a house on
the corner of Hancock and Second Street that used to be a paint
store and it had a parking lot in it and now it 's reverted back
to residential and there is this big old parking lot there and it
is not being used for anything either and you know, kind of like
intrudes on the residential aspect of the neighborhood and so
that ' s what my feeling is,, is that I ' d like see that the
neighborhood keep going in a more residential direction and
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 22
that ' s about it .
MR. BOOTH: When you say intrudes on the character of the
neighborhood, what do you mean by that - how does a parking lot
do that?
MS . STONE : Well., it ' s not a green area - you know - it is not a
lawn area and it looks commercial . You know, the landscape will
probably make it look a lot nicer- than the Hancock Street one but
I would prefer., I guess., green space - lawn area - you know -
just something that just looks more residential than a
commercial .
MR. BOOTH : Thank you ,
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in
opposition . Yes .
MS . MARTIN: Beverly Martin., 205 Second Street . I ' m a life-long
resident of that very same address . I ' ve been certainly
enhear-tened by the efforts of the Neighborhood Housing Services
and the private resident owners who have put forth a concerted
effort at helping our- neighborhood have a spirit of regrowth and
rebirth. I have no problems with Mr . Martin as a neighbor but I
certainly have had concerns about the parking lot issue - about
the street side parking that is cur-r-ently going on. I really
haven' t kept up with the changes because the first picture that I
got - that had a picture of the parking lot was by Bob Leathers -
is not apparently the parking lot any longer- since a fence in the
area has gone up that will support the day care. But I too . . .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Jean will you share . . . .
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 23
MS . MARTIN: Thanks a lot . But I., like the last speaker, am con-
cerned that to whatever degree that Mr . Martin tries to build
parking spaces., will not alleviate - really alleviate
the on-street parking problem because all I see is that
the business will continue to grow. And I know he worked
very hard to get it to grow. So that a reduction of the parking
spaces would be better in my estimation so that there can be more
green area, less of a commercial nature to that flat surface .
Thank you .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in
opposition to this application? Yes., we have some communication
here .
SECRETARY HOARD: Alderman Schlather called me at around six to-
night, he was apparently counting on it raining so that he could
be here because he coaches softball, but Ithaca being Ithaca, he
got fooled so he is coaching softball . I ' ve got some notes that
he - of what he told me - most of it I think has been covered but
let me go through it . He said that this was the result of the
last meeting -with the neighborhood and what basically was agreed
to and what was still in question. The first thing was that
neighbors had agreed to twenty parking spaces and the new design
which is., as I understand it, the design that was passed out to-
night - that they wanted the fencing around the parking lot to be
the same style as the existing fencing around the play area but
only three feet high. That the landscaping indicated that they
agree to and that on the condition that the existing trees be
nZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 24
kept . That there be one entranceway to the parking lot and that
entranceway would be on the part of 218 Second Street that is
nearest the gym center itself and that that driveway be two lanes
so that a car going in ar►d a car- going out could pass each other .
That they had agreed to include some compact parking spaces, al-
though they were unsure of what exact dimensions constituted a
compact parking space. That membership would be limited to two
thousand members maximum and one thing that the neighbors were
concerned about was that black top or asphalt should be put on
the parking lot as soon as possible. That Mr . Martin has agreed
to have parking monitors during the busiest times which is four
p . m. and seven p .m. during busy periods of the year . (tape ended
and was turned over -missed some of the discussion here) Use of
the one hundred block of Third Street of the parking would not be
something that this Board could handle but if it were a condition
that Mr . Martin negotiate that with the Department of Public
Works . Of course that couldn't be binding because it would be up
to the Department of Public Works . There was still a concern
about noise. Apparently their aerobics classes that start before
nine in the morning and it disturbs some of the neighbors . These
things were not resolved as of the meeting of somehow limiting
the noise between nine a.m. - limiting it so that the noise would
be kept down before nine a.m. and after nine p .m. That a lease
would be required for overflow parking on Hancock Street, appar-
ently Mr . Martin has taken some action on that., since that meet-
ing and the neighbors had asked that staff parking be provided
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 25
at Hancock Plaza or elsewhere., and not on this site so that this
site would be - the parking on this site would be for customers .
Those last three items had not been agreed to by Mr . Martin and
there was another item about signage in front of Mrs . Quick ' s
garage to keep people from parking in the driveway or blocking
the driveway. Those are the items that he related to me.
MR, BOOTH: I have a quick question. I haven' t looked completely
through the rules and regulations but I am somewhat troubled
about the burden to which the Building Inspector is going to be
put if people can call and rely on trim to have to present their
comments to the Board. I would think that at best that should
not become a general practice. The Building Inspector has enough
to do and generally I think parties should appear and present
their comments in person or by letter .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well - two things I would say as far as the
rules are concerned., one that we do accept comment from people
who are not here., ordinarily in the form of a letter and if the
Building Commissioner and Zoning Officer doesn' t respond to an
alderman, I don' t know who he should respond to . I think it
would be wise for him to be accommodating .
MR. BOOTH: Well I ' ll admit that, but it makes it more difficult
for the appellants to present their ease when that happens .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Mr . Smithson is there anything that you feel
should be added to the record?
MR . SMITHSON: No Mr . Chairman .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: It is my understanding that there is no one
RZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1884 PAGE 26
else to be heard on this matter and the Board will agree? Do I
hear a motion?
RRA MINUTES OF MAY 7., 1984 PAGE 27
The Board considered the appeal of Robert Leathers, Architect,
for a use variance to permit the use of the vacant lot at 218
Second Street for a par-king lot serving patrons and employees of
the Fitness Center at 119 Third Street . The decision of the
Board was as follows :
MS . FARRELL : I move that the Board deny the use
variance requested in appeal number
1553A.
MR. TOMLAN: I second the motion.
FINDINGS OF FACT :
1 ) The appellant didn' t demonstrate any significant financial
hardship .
2) The creation of a parking area will have a negative impact
on the residential character of this neighborhood.
37 There seems to be a practical solution to the parking
problem in that spaces have been leased at Hancock Plaza
a parking lot just one block away from the Center .
4) Neighbors have expressed opposition to the granting of
this variance .
VOTE : G YES; a NO DENIED
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 28
The Board considered the appeal for use and area variances to
permit the addition of a mezzanine floor within the existing
gymnasium at 119 Third Street ( Ithaca Fitness Center) . The
decision of the Board was as follows :
MS . FARRELL : I move that the Board deny the use and
area variances requested in appeal
number 1558 .
MR. TOMLAN: I second the motion.
FINDINGS OF FACT :
1 ) It could exacerbate the problem of inadequate parking that
has been noted in the area.
2) The expansion of the current non-conforming use of the
building would adversely impact the neighborhood.
3) The owner has not shown that this building will not yield
a reasonable return if used as currently shown.
4) There were some neig'hbors who were concerned with the
increased noise and traffic in this area.
VOTE : 5 YES; 1 NO DENIED
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 29
SECRETARY HOARD: The next appeal is appeal number 1559 for
323-29 COLLEGE AVENUE
Appeal of David and Seymour Turk for an
area variance for a deficient rear yard
under Section 30 . 25, Column 14 of the Zoning
Ordinance, to permit the addition of two
floors of four apartments on each floor
(eight apartment total) to the existing
one-story merchantile building at 323-329
College Avenue (Turk ' s Army and Navy Store
and Collegetown Convenience Store) . The
property is located in a B-2b (business) use
district where the existing and proposed
uses are permitted; however, under Sections
30 . 49 and 30 . 57 of the Zoning Ordinance the
appellants must obtain an area variance for
the deficient rearyard setback before a
building permit or a certificate of
occupancy can be issued for the addition to
the non-conforming structure . The existing
building was constructed under area
variances ( 1258 and 1266) issued in 1979 .
Originally scheduled for the April 2, 1984
meeting, this appeal was referred back to
the Planning and Development Board for a
recommendation .
MR . TURK : My name is David Turk., I ' m part owner of the property
at 323-329 College Avenue. What we are proposing to do actually
is go up two stories on the existing structure on College Avenue,
on top of the present structure. We' ll have four apartments on
each floor, no change actually will be made to the existing
structure that is already there except for the stairways going up
and down. At the original time that we built this one-story
structure, we were granted a variance to build but at that time
we ran out of time and we had to get into our present location,
we didn' t go ahead., and that is approximately five years ago .
We' d like to go ahead with the project right now.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Mr . Turk, the Zoning Ordinance says that these
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 30
are the rules: under- which you may develop the property and what
you propose to do is not allowed by that Ordinance
(unintelligible)
MR. TURK : Right, that is what we. are here for because of the
rear yard - we don't have any setback back: there .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: This Board is; burdened with the responsibility
of granting variances only upon a showing of practical difficulty
in the operation (unintelligible) owning the property with the
variance not granted so are you saying to us that there are some
difficulties in your present situation?
MR. TURK : Well, no, (unintelligible) utilize our property - w,e' d
like to go up in order to make the property pay. At the present
time the two tenants in the property does not pay off the present
mortgage and investment - that ' s why we have intention of going
up, if we can .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: But with a bigger mortgage you will make more
money?
MR. TURK : Eventually, yes . I 'm strapped right now.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Go you have any figure. . .
MR . TURK : I can' t go any further, I can only go up .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Do you have any figures indicating the present
predicament and the proposed addition if the variance is granted?
(unintelligible) if the property won' t pay for itself now will
the new property pay for itself?
MR . TURK : It should, yes .
MR . TOMLAN: Could you be a little bit more specific about
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 31
perhaps the figures involved - you must have those in the back of
your head somewhere .
MR . TURK. : At the present time we are not getting anything on our
investment in the land .
MS . BAGNARDI : The building has been there five years?
MR . TURK : That ' s right .
MR . BOOTH: When you applied for• a variance last time, the
variance was for one additional story and now you are asking for
two. What has changed between now and when the first variance
was granted?
MR. TURK : It is cheaper to go up - by putting two floors up at
this present time, then going up one story . The higher you go
the cheaper it is in cost, actually .
MR . BOOTH: In other words you can put two floor's on for . . .
MR. TURK : Well it is not going to be as expensive as . . .
MR. BOOTH : Per floor?
MR . TURK : Yes that ' s right - per floor is right .
MR. BOOTH: If you were to put only one floor now, on, in
addition, in your opinion., would that make your• present concern a
going concern?
MR . TURK : I think it would take the two, actually, rather than
one, the way we had it figured out .
MR . TOMLAN: Again, do you have any figures, specific figures?
You say, the way you had it figured out .
MR . TURK : Yes, we figured it both ways .
MR . TOMLAN: But you didn't bring those figures with you?
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 32
MR. TURK: No.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: One of the concerns expressed when this matter
was before the Planning and Development Board was the affect that
(unintelligible) upon parking in the area. We get ratty signals
from the Planners,, for instance Nick Plataniotis ' application a
couple of months ago, the Planners objected because of the impact
on parking in the neighborhood and now the Planning Board had a
split vote on the same issue. If you' ve been in business up
there for several years . . .
MR . TURK : Yes, thirty some odd years .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: And I assume you believe that parking isn' t
very important to your business?
MR . TURK : I also express that there is no problem with parking
on College Avenue and there is none during the day . There is
always parking spots available. I have never had a problem up
there with parking , There is less of a problem today than there
was twenty years ago .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I drive through there and find it difficult to
get an automobile up and down the street but maybe there are
parking spaces back of those trucks somewhere - I haven' t seen
them.
MR. TURK : We drive there every day . I have never had a problem.
We can park in front of our place ninety nine percent of the
time. I have no problems as far- as parking .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: All right .
MR . TURK : My name is Mr . Turk, Mr . Seymour Turk . Plus we
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 FACE 33
are paying for a parking space. I 'm parking right in front of
our regular business - today, the day before, Saturday, and I
still rent a spot in the Motel and I find plenty of parking on
the street . I do it just for- a convenience for, myself .
There is plenty of parking .
MR . DAVID TURK : Sure you will have a problem on a Friday night,
a Saturday night - but during the week: there is no problem with
parking up there - they disburse .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I ' m glad to hear that .
MR . SEYMOUR TURK. : There are plenty of people without cars . You
will have more people without cars if you have enough buildings
there to live and stores . People like to shop if there are a lot
of stores there. And you are doing it right now.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Are there any other questions from the Board?
MS . BAGNARDI : Has the Deli tenant been the same one the last five
years? Has there been arty turnover in any of the rental - you
operate Turk Brothers Store yourself?
MR. DAVID TURK : Right .
MS . BAGNARDI : And the Deli Convenience Store. . .
MR . DAVID TURK : It is a new owner that just went in there six or
seven months ago .
MS . BAGNARDI : But the past four years you' ve had the same
tenants in there?
MR . DAVID TURK : Right .
MS . BAGNARDI : How late is that Convenience store open?
MR . DAVID TURK : 2 : 00 A . M.
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 34
MS . BAGNARDI : What time does it open in the morning?
MR . DAVID TURK : 8 : 00 A. M.
MS . BAGNARDI : From 8 : 00 to 2 : 00?
MR. DAVID TURK : Right .
MR. BOOTH: What would these apartments approximately rent for?
What price range are we talking about, any idea?
MR. SEYMOUR TURK : Approximately six hundred.
MR . BOOTH : For two bedrooms, one bedroom?
MR . SEYMOUR TURK : Two bedrooms .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Are there any further questions? Thank you .
Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in support of this
application? Is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition
to this application? We have a letter to be read into the
record.
SECRETARY HOARD: This letter is from Jason Fane of P . O . Box 642,
Ithaca, New York . "Dear- Board: This is to express my support for
the application of David and Seymour Turk who seek to add two
floors to their building on the corner of College Avenue and Dry-
den Road . Their parcel is an important corner and the additional
height would help emphasise its prominent location. I own sever-
al parcels within a few hundred feet of their site and I do not
know of any detrimental aspect of their appeal . The additional
building that they might build would add to the tax base, provide
employment., and provide valuable space to those who occupy it .
By their construction the Turk Brothers would be providing a val-
uable service to the community and should be applauded for their
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 35
initiative and willingness to invest their money in the College-
town area. In addition., their- new building would help hide a
less esthetic structure. It is important to encourage private
apartment construction in Collegetown as it is the source of
property tax revenues which extend over many decades . Many Cor-
nell students desire to live in Collegetown and if they are
housed in new University owned dorms the City will lose large tax
revenues which would be made up by other taxpayers . You can help
protect the homeowner by approving the Turk ' s application.
Please give them the support their worthy project deserves . Very
truly yours, /s/Jason Fane"
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Are there any other letters?
SECRETARY HOARD: No, Mr . Chairman .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Is there anyone else who wishes to be heard on
this appeal?
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7., 1984 PAGE 36
The Board considered the appeal of David and Seymour Turk for an
area variance to permit the addition of two floors of four
apartments on each floor (eight apartment total) to the existing
one-story mer-chantile building at 323-29 College Avenue (Turk ' s
Army and Navy Store and Collegetown Convenience Store) . The
decision of the Board was as follows :
MR . TOMLAN: I move that the Board grant the area
variance requested in appeal number 1559 .
MS . BAGNARDI : I second the motion .
FINDINGS OF FACT :
1 ) There are practical difficulties in complying with
regulations for a rear yard setback .
2) Requirements can be over-looked without changing the character
of the district .
3) There is apparently adequate provision made for off-street
parking .
VOTE : 0 YES; G NO , AREA VARIANCE REQUEST DENIED
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1084 PAGE 37
SECRETARY HOARD: The next case is appeal number 1561, 119 IRVING
PLACE
Appeal of Robert M. Wallace for an area vari-
ance under Section 30 . 25, Columns li and 14 of
the Zoning Ordinance for deficient setbacks for
front and rear yards, to permit the addition of
a patio with grape arbor in one of the three
front yards at 119 Irving Place . The property
is located in an R-lb ( residential, one-family)
use district in which the proposed use is per-
mitted; however, under Section 30 . 49 the appel-
lant must obtain an area variance for the
listed deficiencies before a building permit
can be issued for the listed deficiencies, for
the grape arbor .
MR . WALLACE : I ' m Robert Wallace .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Is that mike on?
MR . WALLACE : It says it ' s on. I can't hear it either . My name
is Robert Wallace from 110 Irving Place. What we want to
construct on the Irving Place side of our lot - maybe I should
explain, the lot is on the corner of Ithaca Road and Irving
Place .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: It ' s Irving and Irving., right?
MR. WALLACE : At Irving and Irving because Irving is like a T .
So it is a three sided lot at the end of the block .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: The Board has the sketch .
MR . WALLACE : You do, oh I 'm sorry - perhaps I should just con-
fine myself to one sentence but for completeness I ' ll ,just go
over it quickly. So we have three front yards technically and
the house was originally built closer- to the rear property line
that► is permitted under the Zoning Ordinance now . So that any
addition to it has to have a variance., as I understand it, be-
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 38
cause it involves expanding a use that is in conflict with the
area requirements by virtue of being too close to the rear prop-
erty line . Also the ten by ten foot patio that we to - over
which we want to build a grape arbor will extend to about twenty-
one feet from the property line on Irving Place, which is about
four feet less than would be required since that is technically a
front yard. So those are the two problems with the Ordinance .
The practical difficulties in this situation are that the house
was built too close to the rear property line and that it has
three, so-called, front yards which considerably restricts what
we can do with the property. And the hardship that this creates
for us - a large part of the property being adjacent to Ithaca
Road is quite noisy a lot of the time and during week days and
even weekends when the Cornell coal trucks are going by, so to
find a quiet place on the lot requires that we go to this one
back side of the house on Irving Place which is why we would like
to have a patio there. We think that the arbor will simply en-
hance the patio and make it a little bit more private, make it
handsomer - of course it also makes it an addition to the struc-
ture., which is why we are discussing it . The lot itself is fair-
ly large so that the additional amount of the lot included within
the patio is practically negligible - no great loss of open space
and the front edge of the arbor - well it does come a little bit
closer to the property line than it should - would be in line
with us rather than projecting in front of the front of the
neighbor' s house . So it wouldn't create a visual break in the
-------------
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 39
line of buildings going down the street . And we think that by
enhancing the appearance of the side of the house it would also
enhance the neighborhood - make it more pleasant for those walk-
ing by as well as for us . I ' d be glad to answer any questions .
MR. BOOTH: What actually will be constructed? I know you have
the base of it laid out but what will the size of that be?
MR . WALLACE : It will be constructed of four by four posts - four
of them and two by six framing on top., connected to the side of
the house .
MR. BOOTH: And open to the air?
MR. WALLACE : Open to the air., strictly for growing grape vines .
MS . BAGNARGI : Any kind of lattice work or anything?
MR . WALLACE : No., I don't plan lattice work:, so the vines will
have to go up the post . There might be some across the top, we
haven' t really worked out the detail how the top would be.
MS . BAGNARGI : So it will be fairly open?
MR . WALLACE : Yes, quite open really .
MS . FARRELL : (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
MR . WALLACE : I ' m not certain about that . In fact, I ' m not sure
whether I should be calling this a grape arbor- - I ' ve heard
mention of wisteria as well . I ' m sorry about that .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Further questions? (none) Thank you . Is
there anyone else who wishes to speak in support of this
application? Anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to this
application? (no one)
BZA MINUTES OF MAY ?, 1484 PAGE 40
The Board considered the appeal of Robert M. Wallace for an area
variance to permit the addition of a patio with grape arbor in
one of the three front yards- at 114 Irving Place . The decision of
the Board was as follows :
MR . BOOTH: I move that the Board grant the area variance
in appeal number 1561 .
MR . TOMLAN: I second the motion .
FINDINGS OF FACT :
1 ) The proposed use is consistent with the character of the
neighborhood .
2) The appellant does have a practical difficulty in making this
proposed use of their lot because of the nature of traffic
conditions on the Ithaca Road side of their house.
3) The existing house is in a location which necessitates the
variance and it would be unduly difficult to move the
existing house .
4) It is pretty close to unique to have three front yards such
as this property has., which presents a practical difficulty .
VOTE : 6 YES; 0 NO GRANTED
nZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 41,
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: May we hear the next case please?
SECRETARY HOARD: The next case is appeal number 1562, for 301
SOUTH GENEVA STREET :
Appeal of Ithaca Neighborhood Housing Ser-
vices, Inc . for use variance under Section
30 . 25, Column 2., and an area variance under
Section 30 . 25, Columns 11 and 12 of the
Zoning Ordinance for deficient front and
sideyard setbacks, to permit moving a buil-
ding with three dwelling units onto the
property at 301 South Geneva Street (former
Henry St . John School property) . The prop-
erty is located in a P-1 (public use) use
district, where the proposed and existing
use for multiple dwellings is not a permit-
ted use . Therefore under Sections 30 . 49
and 30 . 57 of the Zoning Ordinance the ap-
pellant must obtain a use variance for the
additional non-conforming use, as well as
an area variance for the listed yard defi-
ciencies before a building permit can be
issued for relocating the building or a
Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for
the use of the building .
MS . FARRELL : Before we hear this case I would like to just state
that I am on the Board of Directors of Ithaca Neighborhood
Housing and I think that I would be able to hear this case and in
the proper way (unintelligible)
CHAIRMAN WEAVER : The Chair concurs .
MR . CURTIS ' My name is Ben Curtis, I ' m on the staff of INHS at
520 W . Green Street . What we are proposing to do is to move the
house now located at 114 W. Clinton Street across the street to
the northeast corner of the Henry St . John parking area . And to
increase the size of that parking area by roughly two thousand
square feet in order to comply with the existing parking require-
ments and to provide three additional spaces for the relocated
BBA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 41
building . We require a variance because this involves a signifi-
cant amendment to proposals for which we have already been
granted variances on April 7th of ' 83 and on September cath of
' 83 . Also we require a variance for the front yard setback . The
Henry St . John property is zoned P-1 requiring a twenty-five
foot front yard setback: but in order to align the relocated
house with the existing houses adjacent to the Henry St . John
property, the relocated house would be set back only ten feet .
This would also minimize the impact on the par-king area. I ' d
like to mention four points which cause us to favor- this project .
114 W . Clinton is a handsome., sound old big building., indigenous
to this neighborhood and it has some uncommon and appealing ar-
chitectural characteristics worn► preserving . We passed a peti-
tion around the neighborhood - there are thirty-nine residents of
this neighborhood and one Ithaca resident who had relatives
who formerly lived in the building who favors this point
i
of view., if I could add that to the record. I also have a pic-
ture of the building - or- six pictures - if I could pass that
around, to give you some idea - the trim of the building which is
exceptional . Probably more important than the actual building
-we feel that the building will enhance the streetscape attached
to the parking map - the site plan that I gave you there are two
artists rendition of what that streetscape would look like with
and without the building . It emphasizes the residential char-
acter, of the neighborhood and it will screen the Henry St . John
parking lot . If the building were simply demolished, which is
RZA MINUTE�a OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 43
what they have proposed to do with it., there will be a rather
desolute strip of parking going from behind Henry St . John along
behind the Ramada - almost all the way to Green Street . By plac-
ing the building where we propose to place it, we could break
this desolute stretch up . If that entire area were parking it
would also isolate 107 and 109 W. Clinton Street and emphasize
the commercial encroachment into that eastern end of that 100
block of Clinton. Beyond this we would be preserving three hous-
ing units in an area where they are needed and we are simply mov-
ing the building across the street., we wouldn' t be impacting the
density of the neighborhood. No parking is currently allocated
for the tenants of 114 W. Clinton - we propose to provide three
spaces for them and this should constitute an improvement for the
area parking problem. Thank you .
MS . FARRELL : Question. This house currently has no parking?
MR. CURTIS : No it does not . I have one other- thing, I 'm sorry .
There are two letters, one of which you may have in the record
from the American Red Cross?
SECRETARY HOARD : Yes .
MR . CURTIS : Okay., I have a second letter- from John Place who
lives at 107 W . Clinton .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Read it .
MR . CURTIS : OKAY . "To whom it may concern: As a resident and
owner of the property at 107 West Clinton Street., I would like to
express my support for the Ithaca Neighborhood Housing Services ' s
proposal to re-site 114 W. Clinton Street house . I believe the
92A MINUTES OF MAY 7 , 1984 PAGE 44
move would add to the residential nature of the Clinton Street
neighborhood, without negatively impacting the quality of life.
INHS is one of the few organizations in Ithaca with an
impeccable track r-ecor-d for improving local neighborhoods and
maintaining quality tenants in the homes and buildings they own .
I can only assume I .N. H . S . ' s high standards will improve even
more the plans for Henry St . John property by adding a house
facing West Clinton Street . Please grant I .N. H. S . request for a
variance. Thank you. s/s John D . Place
NOTE : SIDE 3 OF TAPE NO. 2 DID NOT RECORD THE MINUTES .
THEREFORE THE VERBATIM MINUTES CONTINUE WITH SIDE 4 OF THE
SECOND TAPE .
B2A MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1384 PAGE 45
The Board considered the request of Ithaca Neighborhood Housing
Services., Inc . for use and area variances to permit moving a
building with three dwelling units onto the property at 301 South
Geneva Street (former Henry St . John School property) . The
decision of the Board was as follows :
MS . FARRELL : I move that the Board grant the use and area
variances requested in appeal number- 1562 .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I second the motion .
FINDINGS OF FACT :
1) It would be a hardship for- the appellants to comply with the
P-1 zoning on which the property is located .
2) There were a significant number of neighbors who are in
support of this variance .
3) Parking problem has been alleviated .
4) The proposed use would enhance the residential character
of the neighborhood .
VOTE : 4 YES; 2 NO GRANTED
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 46
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: We' ll have the next ease please.
SECRETARY HOARD: The next appeal is appeal number 1563, 618 WEST
STATE STREET :
Appeal of W & B Supply Company for an area
variance under Section 30 . 25, Columns 4, 10,
12 and 13 of the Zoning Ordinance for defi-
cient sideyards, to permit one-story addi-
tions to the front and east side of the exis-
ting merchantile building at 618 West State
Street (W & B Supply) . The property is loca-
ted in a B-4 (business) use district in which
the existing and proposed use is a permitted
use; however under Sections 30 . 49 and 30 . 57
of the Zoning Ordinance the appellant must
obtain an area variance for the listed defi-
ciencies before a building permit or a Certi-
ficate of Occupancy can be issued for the
proposed addition .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Identify yourself and proceed.
MR . BENJAMIN: My name is Hoyt Benjamin., I 'm president of W & B
Corporation and sole owner . Representing my corporation we have
two problems that we are asking to - that we are appealing for
-the two problems are, one., lack of visibility and our peculiar
way that this building was built back in 18 - whenever-, it was
set way back: off the street and everybody else has managed to
creep up to the sidewalk . If you will take a moment to look: at
the color photographs., you will notice that our visiblity either
driving or walking down West State Street, is somewhat marred.
When we were at the Planning Board, I brought this point up and
one of the Planning Board members noted that he had driven down
to look at my situation and hadn' t been able to find my building .
He drove by it several times before he found it . I think if you
look: at the pictures., you can see that for a commercial enter-
BZA MINUTES 4F MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 47
prise that we are, we are not well situated to be seen by the
traffic: on the street . The second problem that we have is that
we are in an old building., the facade was remodeled maybe twenty
five, thirty years ago., we tried to update it seven years ago,
put some vinyl siding on it and it just covered up some bad paint
but it didn' t really bring the building into any sort of presence
on the street . Now our- second problem - the first being lack of
visibility, and that being due to the setback: and to the nature
of the old buildings being off the street - the second problem is
the lack of area of showroom space. That problem is due to an
expansion in our• business - we compete in business generally with
people from Elmira., Binghamton and Syracuse -people in the res-
taurant business and other - such as the Colleges -patronize
these out of town suppliers against us because of size, to a cer-
tain extent and what we feel we need to compete more competitive-
ly with these other businesses is increase our- available showroom
space to be somewhat close to what they are and they are all
quite a bit bigger than we are. So we' ve asked to put a new fa-
cade on at street level and spruce up the old facade and increase
our showroom space by fifty percent and increase our visibility
by what we feel is about one hundred percent . This is what Bob
Boehlecke., the architect,, has come up with for a solution to our
two problems so what we are asking for is an area variance . The
area that we are asking for is about - I think it is seven hun-
dred and forty-five square feet and it amounts to less than ten
percent of the lot . There are certain problems that were addres-
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 48
sed in the denial of the building permit., one was minimum park-
ing . By using this alley that we have proposed to use., we are
not going to cut off any par-king. It won't lessen the amount of
cars that we can park in our- back: lot . Another problem that was
cited was that off-street loading - well., now we do all our off-
street loading through tractor trailers in the rear of the build-
ing . We never have tractor trailers stop on State Street now and
we would never- have tractor trailers stop on State Street - it
would cause too must► of a traffic problem. The entrance and exit
- I have given you all letters . The top letter is an agreement
with Terry Cullen that if I were to be issued a variance that he
will negotiate with me a permanent right-of-way for off-street
loading and off-street parking and off-street parking to my rear
lot so that the obstruction of my alley by the new building will
not cause any problem to either of those two concerns . Lot cov-
erage -because of the nature of the building it is impossible for
us to put showroom or offices in a remote part of the building .
The second story in the building is about fourteen feet up off
the first floor . The people that are the office workers are also
the sales people and must be immediately available for• customers
when they come in to be on the showroom floor . We need our of-
fices in conjunction with our showroom. Also in this new facade
we are going to put in a conference room which we need for sell-
ing space. This cannot be remote because people come in - they -
a lot of times - we sell a lot of materials out of catalogs -
they want to sit down and look through our catalogs and I don' t
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 49
believe they would trek: to a remote part of the building to go
and look: at things- . The extent of the lot coverage is like I
already have said, is less - I think: it is about ten percent add-
itional coverage so it is really not that huge a request, I don' t
believe. tide yards - some of the buildings there have been
built with no sideyards . The Laborer ' s building, right next door
to me was built right against me without any side yard, there are
several buildings down the street, the swap-shop down the street
has no side yards,, of course that is pre-existing so all I can
say to the issue of side yards is that they are somewhat common
to the neighborhood. In general I would like to say the scope of
the project needs to be large enough to provide a reasonable pay-
back, a couple of other things I would like for you to know is an
increase in real estate taxes to the City of Ithaca and an in-
crease - probably a huge increase in sales tax revenue by keeping
our local business local . I have succeeded in doing that to a
certain extent so far- and I believe that I can accomplish it to a
much greater extent by offering more goods and whatnot available
to the public right here in Ithaca that people normally drive to
Elmira or Syracuse or- Binghamton for . It is a somewhat special-
ized field but we have managed to capture the interest of the
local market and keep them from driving to these places and, as
you all know, when people drive to Elmira and purchase something
out of a showroom there,, the sales tax goes to the City of
Elmira, so I did want to make that point . I think the only other
thing that I would like to bring to your attention is the amount
EZA MINUTES OF MAY
PAr;E
II/A MINUII UI MAY V, 1 `.)81 PAGI `It
of positive feedback I ' ve been able to muster -before I go to
that - has everyone seen the maps and the whatnot of the property
so that they understand that we have - that by purchasing the
right-of-way through Terrence M. Cullen' s property that we will
have the proper off-street parking and the proper off-street
loading?
MS . FARRELL : When you purchase the right-of-way, will that be
for ever?
MR . BENJAMIN: It will be a permanent right-of-way - that could
be made a condition of the variance as far as I am concerned . As
far as I am concerned a pre-condition of doing this was
that we be able to purchase a permanent right-of-way to that
building . If we are going to put in a permanent building, we
need a permanent right-of-way .
MS . COOKINGHAM: In the minutes before the Planning Board it says
that Cullen will grant lifetime right-of-way . What does lifetime
mean?
MR . BENJAMIN: I thought that was to be permanent . We can amend
that to say permanent, in his deed - right-of-way . The only rea-
son we have not done it already is because it is expensive to go
through and write that into a deed and if I don' t get a variance
it is practially - there is no point in having done it . And I
will have to purchase tht right-of-way from him. So there is
going to be an exchange of money for a right-of-way through his
property . Now I see by the map that you have - I would like to
give you another map - you can pass this around - that will show
R7A MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 51
how a right-of-way straight through - we already used this -we
already used the entrance off of West Seneca Street entirely for
our delivery - for our own personal parking and for our off-
street loading so asking for this area variance is not going to
change anything that we already do - the only thing that we will
be doing is putting it in writing, in his deed and our deed, that
we have that right-of-way.
MS . FARRELL : You are using that now, you say?
MR . BENJAMIN: Yes, we have been for, the last five - seven years .
To witness to that fact., the top letter that I have submitted to
you says, "I Terrence Cullen, owner- of 615 W. Seneca Street,
agree to negotiate with B R W Supply Company on a right-of-way to
618 West State Street for- parking and unloading . This is contin-
gent upon B 8 W being granted a variance on his 618 West State
Street property for construction on his present access . " Finally,
I would like to read into the record the comments of my neigh-
bors . I think, starting with Hour-agency., who is my closest
neighbor and probably the one that would be most concerned about
some kind of construction like this - from J . B . Graves, owner of
Houragency - "Dear- Hoyt - Congratulations! All too marry business
people with ' high exposure' properties ( like your own) never seem
to ' put-back ' - by the looks of your plans for the expansion and
improvement of your• business property - you are indeed ' putting
back ' . Go for it - and if I can be of any assistance please
don' t hesitate to call . Sincerely, /s/ J . B . Graves" I don' t
know if I need to read all of them. You can see that they are
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1884 PAGE 52
from Joe Ciaschi, who owns Farmers and Shippers on the diagonal
corner, Robert Cullen, the owner- of the property behind me - or
Terrence Cullen., owner of the property behind me - Richard L .
Patterson owns some property around the corner - Hi-Speed Check-
weigher Company., Mr . Vic Del Rosso owns property across the
street - Union Hall Tavern., two doors down - Mr . Bill Manos - The
Laborers, who own property right next door- - I think that pretty
well covers the feelings of the people down there. We are in
something that has been rundown for awhile for a neighborhood and
a lot of people have been putting money back into it . Hi-Speed
has, the Laborers have, Bill Manos did., and I ' d like to . I think
that ' s about all I have to say .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Will you pass the letters forward - they will
be a matter for the record .
MR . BENJAMIN: I have copies - would you like the originals?
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: No.. Tom has copies . I want to make sure they
are in the record .
MR . BENJAMIN: Also, I think: that Mark: Kramer, or one of the
Kramers sent a letter to be read .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: We' ll take care of it .
MS . BAGNARDI : How many trucks do you use in your operation - do
you actually make deliveries also?
MR. BENJAMIN: Yes, we just use one truck .
MS . BAGNARDI : One truck . I was there - I think yesterday
afternoon -Sunday - I think there were three vehicles in the
driveway .
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, PAGE 53
11/A MINUII S 0I MAY
MR . BENJAMIN: Parked in the alley., yes . They are extraneous -
they are riot registered. That is just a convenient parking place
and they have been there for two years .
MS . BAGNARDI : So they haven't been moved, they are just sitting
there?
MR . BENJAMIN: No, they haven' t been moved .
MS . BAGNARDI : And there was a lot of sheet metal work: in the
rear of the property - sort of laying around .
MR . BENJAMIN: Yes, we just bought out all of the old equipment
out of the old Ithacare and we ar•e in the process of sorting it
which means that we bring it in and until we can wash it and
clean it up we don' t take it inside the building .
MS . BAGNARDI : I looked in the window,, you really are jammed in
there .
MR . BENJAMIN: We are jammed. We feel that we have been doing a
good job in the community in supplying an important need.
MS . BAGNARDI : How long have you been here?
MR . BENJAMIN: We have been in there for• seven years . And we
have been growing a lot .
MS . BAGNARDI : So it is primarily kitchen facilities?
MR . BENJAMIN: Yes, we supply a lot of paper goods, too. A lot
of the old Harbeck business - used to be Harbeck Industrial -
we' ve picked up a lot of their• business when they went out of
business . And that business is mainly conducted over• the
telephone -the stuff comes in the back door and it goes out the
back door because people call us and order it .
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7., 1984 PAGE 54
MS . BAGNARDI : That was my next question. Do you have a lot of
drop in people?
MR . BENJAMIN: Yes - not as many as we should have. We should
-for the type of business that we are., we should be attracting a
lot more interest off the street . We should have a - for the -we
do very little retail - we do less than five percent retail and
of course that is a higher profit margin for us and we encourage
it and one of the reasons we don' t encourage too much retail is
because we don' t have much space in the showroom and our showroom
is awful commercial . What we intend to do . is to -not only broad-
en our commercial lines in our showroom but to also make it more
appealing., which would make it more retail oriented. Right now
you have to trip over things whey► you walk around in there be-
cause it is so confined .
MS . BAGNARDI : And you actually use all the floors for storage?
MR . BENJAMIN: Yes we do. We store chemicals in the basement and
we store paper on the upper two floors . In the back: we store
equipment and we have to keep a certain amount of that open for
stuff coming and going .
MS . BAGNARDI : Thank you .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Further questions?
MR . BOOTH: Have you explored building in the back of this
building?
MR . BENJAMIN: Excuse me?
MR . BOOTH: Have you explored on the rear of this building?
MR . BENJAMIN: How do you mean? What we are after is showroom
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 55
space .
MR . BOOTH: I understand that . But you are using a lot of the
existing space for storage. How about if you moved some of your
existing storage into places in the rear of the building., would
that free up . . . . .
MR . BENJAMIN: No. The problem is., is that the building is real-
ly two buildings . There is the two-story - three-story frame
building in the front and they► there is some - cinder-block ware-
house that is built in the back . Now that cinderblock warehouse
that was built in the back, used to be - I think it was a carpet
cleaning warehouse with one tall ceiling but it wasn' t very tall .
We divided that in half and put a deck: in there that we use for
storage. Both the upper and lower parts of this masonary ware-
house are storage . At different levels than the frame building
in the front . The frame building in the front being - the entire
first floor is our offices and showroom, right now. Back here
there is an elevator which precludes the use -there is access to
the basement right behind this wall - that precludes use there
and most of this back space is used for immediate storage needs
for stuff that goes out the front door . People come in and they
want a case of glasses., a case of rolled towels or- something - we
have our immediate storage there - we have our- longer term stor-
age in the upper., more remote parts of the building . It is about
four foot different level between the front and the back so that
because of the construction., I think Bob Boehlecke, who has drawn
up the plan, can tell you that it would be next to impossible to
i
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 56
make anything of a showroom or- of a office back: in this area .
MR . BOOTH: What do you use the top floors of the three-story?
MR . BENJAMIN: What do we - we stor-e mainly paper there - we have
to buy paper in larger quantities .
MR . BOOTH : Okay . I wonder- if you built extra stor-age space on
top of the masonr-y building in the back: - can you do that?
MR . BENJAMIN: I don' t know if that - I would assume that that
was permitted. I don't think that addresses the issue of giving
us more showroom space. Okay? What we ar-e after is mor-e area on
the floor for people to be able to come and choose items . Right
now one of our- problems is that with two floors back her-e., two
floors above and one floor below., we car-r-y more items than you
can come in and look at on my showroom floor- . I have a lack of
display space . You have to be some kind of a wizard to know what
I carry because I can't car-r-y enough samples, enough small quan-
tities of what I am selling on the showroom floor- to - for people
to see, to know that I have it., okay? That is our- main problem
and the other- main problem that we have with it., is that because
we are a small staff - ther-e is only three of us ther-e right now
- we ar-e either- in the office wor-king., or-dering - or- whatever- on
the telephones, or we ar-e waiting on customers and we have to be
immediately accessible when that door opens to the sales floor,
therefore the sales offices - the offices have to be immediately
available to that floor- . If they wer-e remote we would never- get
any work. done. We couldn' t be running to a back: par-t of the
building and listening for- the buzzer- when the fr-ont door opened.
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 57
So we didn' t feel that we could really justify moving the offices
to another- part of the building . The office workers are the peo-
ple that wait on people .
MR . BOOTH: How about putting it on the second floor?
MR . BENJAMIN: It is a distance and because - this building was
rebuilt back 1900 - we found signs on the second floor- for- how
' many sewing machines they were allowed up there and on the third
floor - it used to be a sweat shop and they removed the stairs
out of there and the only way that you get to the second floor
eight now is to go back through the cinderblock warehouse and it
is through inventory that you get there and to construct some-
thing different would be expensive - it would be hor-r-ibly expen-
sive and it wouldn' t be effective . And I am using the space al-
ready . I mean,, I still have to look: for more space. We sat
down, I sat down with Bob and said how do we solve these prob-
lems? And the problems were the lack of visibility because peo-
ple do go by us and don't know where we are and don' t know who we
are and don' t know what we do. Well granted, we ar•e commercial
and we are not a retail type of business where you broadcast to
everybody in town what you do but I still would like to be seen
when people drive down the road and I think if you look at the
pictures that I passed around - if you ar-e walking down the side-
walk or• driving down the road and that street can be busy some-
times, you can miss it .
MR . BOOTH: Couldn' t that display concern though, be met by
simply moving the building for-war-d - the front of it as you
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 58
propose, without the side addition?
MR . BENJAMIN: Well there is two problems with that . One is that
that is a very very small square footage increase for the amount
of money that would have to be spent on doing that - which makes
it out of the question in terms of expense. It just wouldn' t
have any payback to it . It is not addressing the other half of
the problem which is the showroom space .
MR . BOEHLECKE : To answer that in part - to come forward six feet
by thirty feet - you are gaining at best one hundred and eighty
square feet of space and you are talking about possibly twenty to
twenty-five thousand dollar . . .
SECRETARY HOARD : Could you identify yourself for the record?
MR . BOEHLECKE : Pardon me., Bob Boehlecke, architect - 203 Utica
Street .
MR , BOOTH: I understand that but a great deal is made in the
application about the visibility question - it ' s that coming
forward that solves that problem .
MR. BOEHLECKE : That ' s true .
MR. BENJAMIN: I want to point something out here. As you can
see on the lot plan., I have a masonary warehouse and a three
story building . The three story building - and this is what we
are asking for for the addition - now., presently our office is
about thirty percent of the showroom floor and just by coming
forward would not gain us that much more showroom space. What we
propose to do - I don't know if you can see this - is we are go-
ing to take the offices out of the back of the showroom - that
RZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 59
will give us all of this around here and then we will have an
office and a conference room right along the side here. But be-
cause of the need for them to be immediately accessible to the
show room floor., we couldn' t really justify putting them anywhere
else . . Now we looked, asked Bob to look over the building and
give me his best ideas on the subject and we looked at chopping
hales and doing this and we found a lot of expensive things to do
that didn' t solve the problem. It would have been a lot easier
not to go to the Zoning Board because I could have gotten a buil-
ding permit for any of them.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Further questions?
MS . FARRELL : Yes, I guess I have a question about parking . On
the sheet that we have it says now there are one to five spaces
possible and then with the change there would be five spaces
possible and I just wondered are (unintelligible) is that what
we are talking about?
MR . BENJAMIN: Yes . Bob laid out some spaces for me . Right now
it is just kind of helter skelter back there .
MR . BOEHLECKE : My drawing said two to six possible. I don' t
know how it got changed to one to five .
MS . FARRELL : It just seems like a big difference - I mean, why
is there that variation, I just don' t know .
MR . BOEHLECKE : Six is possible but not - I was indicating that
at present it isn' t because there is some ,junk stored where cars
could be parked . There is room for six spaces if the junk is
moved and there would be no increase or decrease in the possible
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 60
number of spaces .
MR . BENJAMIN: Addressing the parking - also we would be making -
by eliminating our curb cut for our alley we would increase the
parking on the street by one which we figure they could - they
will be able to put a meter in where our curb cut is . There is
enough space between the two other parking meters existing that
allow my opening there. And the only parking that we are really
talking about eliminating is true what should be used as access
to my property . . .
MR . BOEHLECKE: That is not legal parking - it ' s (unintelligible)
the parking situation in terms of number of spaces doesn' t change
except for the fact that one would be picked up on the street
with the driveway being closed .
MR. BENJAMIN: So what we are really talking about is lack of
access which we have predetermined that we would have that
permanent right-of-way granted through Terrence Cullen' s - on his
property before we were issued the building permit . We
understood that to be a condition .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Further questions? Thank you. Is there anyone
else who wishes to speak in support of this application? Yes,
come forward .
MR . METZGAR: I am Mark: Metagar, I own the AM/PM across the
street and being a regular customer of B & W can certainly state
that they do need much more retail space. They are quite
cluttered there. And also in the past few years there has been a
lot more development in the west end - a lot of face lifts on
RZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 61
buildings and it is nice to see somebody trying to take the
initiative to do it themselves and I am very much in favor of
this addition, I think it will add quite a bit to the street as a
whole . Thank you .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to
speak in support of this application? (no one) Anyone who
wishes to speak in opposition to this application? (no one)
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 62
The Board considered the appeal of Hoyt Benjamin for an area
variance to permit one-story additions to the front and east side
of the existing merchantile building at 618 West State Street (W
& B Supply) . The decision of the Board was as follows :
MS . BAGNARDI : I move that the Board grant the area
variance requested in appeal number 1563 .
MR . TOMLAN: I second the motion .
FINDINGS OF FACT:
1 ) The addition proposed observes the spirit of the Ordinance
and doesn' t change the character of the area.
2) The addition wouldn' t affect the character of the
neighborhood .
3) Adequate parking has been made available .
4) Contingent on the agreement for a permanent right-of-way with
Terry Cullen .
5) Practical difficulty has been shown in that in order to give
visibility to the existing building the surrounding buildings
would have to be moved back from the sidewalk .
VOTE : 2 YES; 4 NO DENIED
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 63
SECRETARY HOARD: The next appeal is appeal number 1564, for 321
COLLEGE AVENUE:
Appeal of Craig and Keith Schaufler for an
area variance under Section 30 . 25, Columns 6
and 15 of the Zoning Ordinance for deficient
lot size and deficient rear yard setback, to
permit the addition of a second floor with
mezzanine to the existing ane-story building
at 321 College Avenue (College Liquor) . The
proposed use for a restaurant is permitted in
the B-2b (business) use district in which the
property is located; however, under Section
30 . 49 the appellant must obtain an area vari-
ance for the listed deficiencies before a
building permit can be issued for the addi-
tion . A similar proposal (Appeal No .
1555) was heard and denied by the Board at its
April 2, 1984 meeting . The appellants are
returning with new information for the Board ' s
consideration .
MR . TAUBE : My name is David Taube and I am representing the
Schauflers as architect for Hoffman, O' Brien, Levatich and Taube
Architects, 419 West Buffalo Street . I have the original
presentation here, I would go over- anything again that had been
heard previously, if you so desire. The building on College
Avenue between the Turk Brothers building and . . .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well, first of all it may be to your advantage
or the Board to hear you reiterate the original but it is
necessary for us to determine that there is adequate reason for a
new hearing as a first matter of business, and don't feel that
that is limiting you to that but it needs to be determined first .
MR . TAUBE : Okay, the points that we feel that we have additional
information regarding the proposal address essentially the three
findings of fact of the original . The first item regards the
size of the lot - unique situation that we face. This drawing is
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1964 PAGE 64
taken from maps from the County office and, as you can see, the
areas that are defined in red - two areas on Eddy Street as well
as these four areas on College Avenue - represent to the best of
my knowledge all the properties that are in the B-2b zone. There
is thirty-six properties total as shown on the property map - of
which only five of those properties which are outlined in yellow
are less than the twenty-five hundred square foot requirement .
There is one property on Linden Avenue., two on Dryden, the
Schaufler ' s property on College Avenue and one property on Eddy
Street . Of those five parcels, there is only one parcel that is
smaller than the Schaufler property which is eighteen hundred
square feet, thirty by sixty . The Sam Gould property across the
street is sixteen hundred and eighty square feet - that is the
only property smaller . Of the five, one - the property on Linden
Avenue - is twenty-four hundred and seventy-five square feet - it
is within twenty-five square feet of the requirement . Given the
zoning requirements in the size of the properties - which inci-
dentally averages four• thousand seven hundred and fifty-eight
square feet - we are presented with a very unique situation in
the size of this property that has been that size, I guess, at
least, to the best of our knowledge, for thirty years . That is
one of the items that we wish to elaborate upon. The second item
regarding parking, I think Mr . Weaver., you presented part of that
case for us, in the fact that two days following the original
hearing Common Council voted to rezone 'one block of Collegetown,
which is the area here. As part of a process that, I guess, has
RZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 65
gone back quite a few months, regarding change of zoning for the
Collegetown area. They did not vote to change any parking re-
quirement within the entire district . This request for a vari-
ance does not include any parking requests because the present
zoning in Collegetown simply states "no parking is required" .
Following Common Council vote and the subsequent finding of addi-
tional information we went to the Planning Board for reapplica-
tion and the Planning Board found., in a three to two vote, in
favor of this project, having initially voiced concern of lack of
direction from Common Council regarding the parking issue . The
third item that we are presenting relates to the rear yard re-
quirement of ten feet and again I would present the practical
difficulty of the site of the lot in being able to accommodate
the practical difficulty that the owners have in utilizing their
property for its original purposes and that is as a liquor store .
I had presented originally the problems: related to the size of
the store - the fact that inventory cannot be kept on site and
the difficulties of expanding the property and being able to do
it economically. We feel that without rezoning - I ' m sorry -
without granting a variance for this property that our client
would suffer significant economic hardship based upon the value
of the property being considerably reduced. We feel that these
three points - one of which was., in fact, a decision that was
made following the previous hearing - in addition to additional
research on the unique character of that particular lot as well
as additional points I would like to present on the lot itself -
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 66
do suggest, certainly, a rehearing .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER : So it is your position that this property,
although not unique, shares a problem of minimum lot size that is
only shared by four other properties in the Collegetown area?
MR . TAUBE: Yes, in fact I 'm not certain of this but I think was
used in the appeal form - the form that was given to us to fill
out and I guess the definition of unique is singular . With the
exception of Sam Gould' s this is the smallest site in the entire
B-2b district . I don' t think we are stretching the point in
terms of practical difficulty in the size of this particular.
parcel .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Dick do you have a question?
MR. BOOTH: Yes, I have a couple of questions . I want to focus
for a moment on your suggestion that we should rehear this - the
new information . The new information relates - one, to a vote by
Common Council?
MR . TAUBE : Common Council and the Planning Board .
MR , BOOTH : Dealing with the land down on Dryden Road - is that
what you are talking about?
MR. TAUBE : The zoning question of Collegetown .
MR . BOOTH: How does that provide new information for this
decision?
MR . TAUBE : Well, the finding which was made by your Board stated
"because variance would obviously increase the traffic flow and
inevitable parking problems in the neighborhood. From personal
observation there are serious traffic problems and parking
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 67
deficiencies that seem to be area-wide. " It states right in the
finding that that is personal observation. The studies that have
been done to date by the City do not support the fact that there
is a parking problem in the area. There may be also a
conflicting problem in that many of the studies have been done
related to proposed projects and not to existing conditions . The
Planning Board has repeatedly stated that the - I ' m going to try
and get this right - that the parking issues in Collegetown have
not been substantiated, that in fact the Travis report that had
been submitted did not state there was a par-king problem. There
were recommendations that went along with this study that
suggested two different types of parking issues, one is the
daytime commercial use, the other is the longterm residential
use .
MR . BOOTH: What is the difference between today and a month ago?
MR . MAZZA: Can I explain that? My name is Ed Mazza, I ' m the
attorney for the Schauflers . I think what he is referring to is
actually not action taken by Common Council but the lack of
action taken or not taken by Common Council with regards to a
proposed amendment to the Ordinance that they decided not to act
on . There were two amendments proposed,, as I understand it - one
was to rezone this area and the other was to rezone the rest of
it to require parking . They decided not to do that by inaction
and I think: that has changed. The time the Schauflers were here
before that was currently on the table .
MR . BOOTH: Okay . I got your- point . Now the second point is,
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 68
this is a map of the properties that exist in C:ollegetown . This
information was certainly ascertainable a month ago .
MR . TAUBE : That is true. In the meeting., and I believe you can
check the minutes that I stated that this is one of the only, if
not the smallest property in C:ollegetown and I started the dis-
that I had not, in fact., proven that . There had been no conver-
sation to the contrary of my statement but item number two., "the
special conditions clause of the Ordinance was not fully dealt
with in that it is not the only lot of its approximate dimension
in the area. " I think. by defining this information we are
dealing with the magnitude .
MR . BOOTH: Alright, my recollection of that discussion, and
correct me if I ' m wrong., is we were talking about property depth .
As I look at that map., there is substantial number- of properties
of this depth which is about sixty feet .
MR . TAUBE : That is item one. I did answer the question in the
minutes and I believe it is shown in the minutes - the question
regarding lot size was addressed, in which I described the lots
starting from Olivers, south., and ended it at some point on the
way down. And item number two is referring to the approximate
dimension in the area. So I am referring - we were responding
just specifically to that point .
MR. BOOTH: You are trying to make the point that this lot and
only four other lots are below twenty-five hundred square feet .
My recollection of at least part of our discussion was the
RZcA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE Gra
perception of the Board that there were a number of lots with
similar depths .
MR . TAUBE : That was item one which I referred to and I will
elaborate on if required .
MR . MAZZA: I think that also we should add that there is - I
don' t think there is any other lots and I 'm not certain of this
but there aren' t any other lots with that depth that have that
width . We' ve got to look at those things together . There may be
others, such as the Turk property that goes back sixty feet -
others that go back sixty feet but they have a wider frontage so
they have a bigger lot to deal with .
MR . TOMLAN: I don' t think that (unintelligible)
MR . MAZZA: I ' m saying with a sixty foot depth there aren' t those
with a thirty foot width. Those with sixty foot depths - I
haven' t looked at every one of them but for the most part seem to
have a wider frontage .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well we are not arguing about depth., we are
talking about a minimum sire lot that turned out to be oval - it
wouldn' t make any difference to the Zoning Ordinance per se but
as I understand it, it says., in that area a lot should be not
less than twenty-five hundred square feet if it is to be used for
the allowable uses in the district and anyway you want to slice
it it ' s actual form could be - seriously affect the amount that
could be used because of their rear yard rather. than the other
dimension. But it seems to me that we have a lot that existed
quite possibly before the adoption of the present Zoning Ordi-
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 70
nance and the owner is stuck: with a lot that after he or someone
owned it, turned out to be too small for further development and
I could see that there is a practical difficulty in reasonable
use of that property. I ' d like to stay here for just a minute
and try ' to stay back without arguing the merits and the whole
neighborhood - on whether we have new information. Your comment,
David, about finding number three - to try to further ventilate
that observation on the part of at least one of us that there is
- by observation there are some traffic and parking problems in
that district and your statement that no consultant has yet found
that to be so - is it riot true that the proposed development has
with it a storage garage?
MR . TAUBE : It has a garage., yes . You mean the hotel?
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Yes, is that to meet the hotel ' s requirements?
MR . TAUBE : No it ' s beyond the hotel ' s requirement - it is there .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: So the city is proposing to spend federal and
local money to put up a garage that is not needed?
MR. TAUBE : No, I don't believe that is what I said. The Travis
report . . . .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I don't think you said that either but I ' m just
listening to what I hear .
MR . TAUBE : I think there are questions that have been raised to
that effect . . . the garage addresses the hotel . . .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well in hearing or rehearing this, to attack
the findings of the Board requires an attorney and an article 78
and not a rehearing because everytime some appellant is unhappy
RZA MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1984 PAGE 71
with our findings - to have him come back next month and tell us
why we were misinformed or came to the wrong conclusion would
keep up here even later than we are doing tonight and so I ' m a
little jealous of our perogative on deciding what ' s new and is it
new and I ' m not trying to be a technical so-and-so but really I
think seriously we need to have new information that was not
available a month ago and would give this Board some new basis
upon which to make its decision .
MR . TAUBE : 1 believe at the BZA you had stated at the time great
concern about not having direction from other Boards - that the.
Planning Board, by not making a recommendation, was not passing
on a direction to the BZA and there were statements made to the
effect that without that direction, find it difficult to address
that particular point . We have new direction both from the
Planning Board and the Common Council .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Based upon the action of other Boards, or
inaction, as the case may be., if you can further instruct this
Board as to the parking and traffic conditions in Collegetown, it
would seem to me that might be productive and (unintelligible)
adequate reason. I would like to have a motion of the Board and
I am willing to make it myself to rehear this case based upon
action of Common Council and recommendation from the Planning
Board as we see it .
MR . BOOTH : Second .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: All of those in favor? We have three yes -
three no?
BZA MINUTES OF MAY 7., 1984 PAGE 72
Ballot vote was taken which disclosed the following vote:
3 YES; 2 NO; 1 ABSTENTION
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: So we have a failing on the motion to rehear .
As I understand it, under• the rules of this Board, you are denied
a second hearing . Ed is there a question?
MR . MAZZA: No, no question, we considered the possibility of an
Article 78 proceeding based upon the findings before . We thought
that rather than go to the court procedure., based upon the new
information that we had., - the new direction that wast given to
you - we would come here first . We felt that if we went through
the Article 78 proceeding the Court would ,just send it back here
anyway for a hearing on more facts - new facts submitted and in
my opinion there was a finding of fact that was not supported at
all by the record .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: That you can' t argue with us .
MR . MAZZA: I know, that ' s: why we came back to present the other
is to give you an opportunity to see all the facts so that you
could make a decision based on the facts .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well under the rules, the Board, as I
understand it - you are denied a rehearing .
73
I , BARBARA RUANE, DO CERTIFY THAT I took the minutes of the Board of
Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York, in the matters of Appeals
numbered 1553A, 1558, 1559, 1561 , 1562, 1563 and 1564 on May 7, 1984
in the Common Council Chambers, City of Ithaca, 108 East Green Street,
Ithaca, New York, that I have transcribed same, and the foregoing is a
true copy of the transcript of the minutes of the meeting and the action
taken of the Board of Zoning ,Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York on the
above date, and the whole thereof to the best of my ability.
Barbara C. Ruane
Recording Secretary
Sworn to before me this
day of _ 1984
Notary Pub1 [c
JEAN J. HANKINSON
NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE OF NEW YORK
No. 55-1600800
QUALIFIED IN TOMPKINS COUN
MY CO•'d"�IS�'O�J EXPIRES MARCH 30,19Y