HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1984-04-02 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK
APRIL 2, 1984
TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE
APPEAL NO. 4-1-84 Bill J. Manos , 356 Elmira Road 2
APPEAL NO. 4-1-84 Action of the Board 11
APPEAL NO. 1553 Robert Leathers, Architect 12
216 and 218 Second Street
APPEAL NO. 1553 Action of the Board 21
APPEAL NO. 1555 Craig and Keith Schaufler 22
321 College Avenue
APPEAL NO. 1555 Action of the Board 36
APPEAL NO. 1556 Margaret Cecce 37
111 W. Jay Street
APPEAL NO. 1556 Action of the Board 40
APPEAL NO. 1557 Judith Jackson 41
415 Elm Street
APPEAL NO. 1557 Action of the Board 64
APPEAL NO. 1558 Robert Leathers, Architect HELD OVER BY PLANNING & 66
119 Third Street DEVELOPMENT BOARD
APPEAL NO. 1559 David and Seymour Turk REFERRED BACK TO THE 66
323-29 College Avenue PLANNING & DEVELOPMENT BD.
APPEAL NO. 1560 Adrian Kitai 67
115 Utica Street
APPEAL NO. 1560 Action of the Board 73
CERTIFICATION OF THE RECORDING SECRETARY 74
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2., 1984 PAGE 1
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK
APRIL 2, 1984
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: This is a meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals
meeting in a formal public hearing and several matters listed in
the official notice of the meeting . In attendance tonight :
Tracy Farrell
Jean Cookingham
Michael Tomlan
Bette Bagnardi
Richard Booth
Charles Weaver, Chairman
Thomas D . Hoard, Secretary to the
Board 8 Building Commissioner
Barbara Ruane, Recording Secretary
The Board operates under the provisions of the City Charter of
the City of Ithaca and the provisions of the Zoning Ordinance .
The Board will not be bound by strict rules of evidence in the
conduct of the hearing and the determinations shall be founded
upon sufficient legal evidence to sustain the same. The Board
requests that all participants come forward and we have two
chairs here for you and microphones for you - please don' t try to
speak from the audience because we need to record any testimony
and we need to have you up close enough so the recording machine
does a good job and your remarks are not lost forever . We take
these cases in the order in which they are listed on the official
notification and first we hear the appellant and anyone in favor
of granting the appeal and then grant time to those who are op-
posed. Following that the Board discusses the case, has its
findings and votes by ballot, after which the results of the vot-
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 2
ing are announced and we go on to the next case. Is there anyone
who wishes to withdraw an application at this time? May we have
the first c ase?
SECRETARY HOARD: The first case, Mr . Chairman., is appeal number
4-1-84:
Appeal of Gill J . Manos for a variance for
a deficient sign setback under the require-
ments of Section 34 . 8, Paragraph B of the
Sign Ordinance. The property is located at
356 Elmira Road ("Talk of The Town") in a
B-5 (business) use district in which a ten
foot setback is required for signs . The
appellant has reduced the area of signage
on the property to comply with the Sign
Ordinance, however a setback variance is
required to permit the proposed location of
the sign three feet, four inches from the
property line .
MR. THALER: Mr . Chairman., my name is Dick Thaler, I am with the
firm of Thaler and Thaler,, I represent Mr . Manos who is here with
me this evening . He has asked me to speak to the Board on his
behalf . Mr . Manos has requested the setback . For those of you
who are familiar with the premises - it was formerly called The
Derby and when it was The Derby it had a sign that was not in
conformity with anybody' s ordinance. However at the time that
The Derby was constructed., the foundation for the present sign
was installed - this was twenty years ago. When The Derby was
sold the sign was continued and the fact that it was not enhanced
but it was increased in size and was called the Faces . I brought
with me this evening a copy or a photograph showing the way the
sign was at the time that my client purchased the premises . One
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 3
of the first things that he did was to take down 150 square feet
of sign so as to comply with the square footage of the Ordinance.
What he would like to do, and I brought a diagram, is to - over•
the existing kiosk-type foundation which is presently there,
place a twenty-eight square foot - I think it is twenty-eight
-I 'm sorry, twenty-two square foot sign indicating that it is the
Talk of The Town. This, plus the worded sign which is twenty-
eight square feet, would bring it to fifty square feet as opposed
to the one hundred and fifty square feet that was there before .
The problem that we have is that the concrete base of the exist-
ing sign that was there before is only set back I believe six and
one-half feet from the road right-of-way. Your Ordinance re-
quires ten feet . There is no other place on the property wherein
a sign of the type that my client would like to put there and
would be in conformity with what he has done to the exterior of
the building., could be placed. The fact that we are not moving a
sign or we are not moving any structure, the fact that that
structure has been in place for• twenty years, as far as the base
is concerned, the concrete base and the existing structure upon
which we would like to place the sign. We feel that it is a
hardship if this variance is not granted in that he has no place
other than that structure which is existing and that he bought as
i
an existing structure except maybe the side of the building which
would not give him the visibility of the Elmira Road for traffic
going by. Visibility is imperative to his existence in business,
the sign that he intends will not change the characteristics of
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 4
the neighborhood - it would be more than in conformity with the
other- signs, in fact it would be a great deal more artistically
inclined than most of the signs down on the Elmira Road. For
that purpose we would ask this Board to grant us a variance.
When we were in front of the Planning Board there were members of
the Planning Board that indicated that if they could give us con-
sideration for the hardship., they would have done so but their
being a planning function, they voted unanimously against this
based on the planning staff' s recommendation. We ask this Board
to grant us the variance. We feel that Mr . Manos has done a good
,job in enhancing the property and enhancing the neighborhood in
which the building is located. If there ar-e any questions that
you would like to ask, please feel free. I can leave this dia-
gram here for- you - why don' t I just pass this around and then
you can see the situation as it is or the way that we would in-
tend it to be.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I have a question. The notice says that the
sign is three feet., four• inches from the property line and you
used six and one-half . Ar-e we talking about the same position in
each case?
MR. THALER: Well I think I got mine, Charles., from this render-
ing., I 'm not sure at which point the three feet from the property
line was taken. I took: it at the base and maybe it is at the top
that we ar-e talking about because the top, I think, overhangs the
base. I guess the three feet - whatever it is - is from the top,
Charles, not from the base. I took mine from the base.
h
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 5
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Okay .
MR, BOOTH: So the variance is needed for about six and one-half
feet?
MR. THALER: Yes sir .
MR. BOOTH: The reason it can' t be moved back toward the front of
the restaurant is that it is too close?
MR. THALER: No., the reason it can' t be moved further back toward
the restaurant is that it would then interfere with the traffic
pattern - of traffic coming off of Elmira Road, coming in front
of the place of business under the awning so that people could be
discharged under a protective cover . If you move the sign back
then you can' t get a car or any other vehicle between the sign
and the place of business .
MS . FARRELL : How much room is there now between - under the
awning?
MR. THALER: Let me show you a picture - photograph of the front
of the business as it appears now.
MR. TOMLAN: What would preclude you from putting the sign on top
of the building?
MR. THALER: I believe that would be a violation of the
Ordinance .
SECRETARY HOARD: Yes it would.
MR . TOMLAN: By height?
SECRETARY HOARD: It would be above the roof .
MS . BAGNARDI : Tom I have a question for• you. Why wasn' t the
sign made to comply with the Ordinance in 1979 or shortly
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE G
thereafter?
SECRETARY HOARD: It was cited and somewhere in the process
against the Derby - they went out of business and then Faces went
in there and they went out of business .
MR. TUMLAN: Now long has Mr . Manos owned this?
MR. THALER: Less than a year . Bill when did you open?
MR. MANUS : A couple of months ago.
MS . COOKINGHAM: Mr . Thaler., in one of the exhibits there is an
indication that you are presenting this as an undue hardship
because additional unobtainable capital would be required - I
assume to put up another sign . Would you elaborate a little bit
on that?
MR. THALER: Yes . This property was purchased for the particular
function. The - since it has only been opened for two months
there is no cash that is being generated at the present time on
which to be able to go back: for a further loan to do further re-
novations . The loan that was obtained was based upon some known
factors - this was not one of those. I would think that after
the business had been functioning for awhile and had a different
cash flow or exceeded the cash flow projections that they may be
able to get an additional loan but at this point they cannot .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Is the new entry cover two lane, three lane,
one and one-half lane?
MR. THALER: One, well it is actually one and a quarter . In
other words you can' t fit two cars underneath the awning at the
same time .
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 1, 1984 PAGE 7
MR. BOOTH: How about if you moved the sign to either end of the
property and set it back the required setback?
MR. THALER: I think you are going to be interfering with the
driveway where it comes in off the road. The width of the
property at the present time is one hundred and thirty one point
seven feet ( 131 . 7) . The width of each of the entrance-ways I
believe is forty - so that is eighty - that leaves you with about
fifty feet and the fifty feet is now planted . . .
MR. BOOTH: In the middle .
MR. THALER: Yes . As I say, I am not an architect nor an
engineer .
MR. BOOTH: The reason I raised that is because the Planning and
Development Board suggested the possibility that the sign could
be placed someplace else on the site .
MR. THALER: My feeling is - as I indicated to the Planning Board
I wasn' t sure where I would put it in order to conform - again
on the roof would be great because then it would be completely
out of the way but then you are in another violation and what
Mr . Manos is trying to do is trying to comply. And I think
everybody agrees that what he has done so far has been a benefit
to the area because he has decreased the detraction of the signs
that were there and that were cited.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Are there any further questions?
MS . COOKINGHAM: Mr . Thaler., I can understand your saying on the
one side - I was out there yesterday - and on the one side I
think: it would be - it would hinder the exit - I don' t know which
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 8
is the entrance and which is the exit - but I went in., I guess it
would be on the east side of the building and came out on the
west side. The west side - it is very narrow but on the east
side there seems to be quite a bit of distance between the
property line and the building .
MR. THALER: The east side meaning closer to the city?
MS . COOKINGHAM: Right .
MR, THALER: That 's the right-of-way . Okay, there is an overhead
- the electric right-of-way. Apparently cannot have a sign in.
It runs along the east line .
MS . COOK.INGHAM: Mr . Hoard., what is the condition of the other
signs in the area? Are they out of compliance?
SECRETARY HOARD: There are several out of compliance - the
billboards are out of compliance - there are some signs that are
- a gas sign out almost to the city line that is out of
compliance. One of the used car dealers is out of compliance.
MS . COOKINGHAM: Well are efforts being made to bring those signs
into compliance?
SECRETARY HOARD: Yes ,
MS . COOKINGHAM: Actively?
SECRETARY HOARD: Yes . They are all tied into the billboard
problem.
MS . FARRELL : (unintelligible) variances .
SECRETARY HOARD: Right .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Any further questions?
MR. BOOTH: I have a question. Could you put a sign right on the
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 9
front of the marquee?
SECRETARY HOARD: On the canopy. Along the long sides .
MR. THALER: I suppose you could - along the long side.
MR. MANOS : Excuse me - the canopy is cloth - and it just
doesn't -you couldn't put the sign on it .
MR. THALER: That is apparently a cloth canopy.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Any further questions? Thank you. Is there
anyone else who wishes to speak in support of this application?
Anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to this application?
Please come forward. We need your name and address . Have a
chair .
MS . STANTON: Carol Stanton, 408 Elm Street, Ithaca, New York and
that is not why I am here. I appreciate Mr . Manos plea. When
the Ordinance was set it was only a two-lane highway, not four
and five in some cases . So it would be difficult to stay within
the Ordinance of ten feet or whatever .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Could you tell me your interest in the
property?
MS . STANTON: I appreciate his - he is asking for a variance on
something over which he has no control . . .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: My question is, do you own property on Elmira
Road?
MS . STANTON: No.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Go you live on Elmira Road.
MS . STANTON: No .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Your interest is merely as a friend of the
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 10
applicant?
MS . STANTON: That is right .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Alright . We have a restriction on those people
we will hear and limited to people whose property would be influ-
enced or who are involved with the business or have a direct in-
terest in the neighborhood, I guess is the best word I can use at
the moment .
MS . STANTON: I ' m sor•r•y, I was not aware of that restriction.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well thank you very much. Is there anyone else
who wishes to speak in support of this application? Is there
anyone who wishes to speak against this application? Thank you.
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1384 PAGE 11
The Board considered the request of Bill J . Manos for a variance
for a deficient sign setback under the requirements of Section
34 . 8 Paragraph B of the Sign Ordinance. The decision of the
Board was as follows:
MR. BOOTH: I move that the Board grant the request
for- the deficient sign setback requested
in appeal 4-1-84 .
MS . BAGNARDI : I second the motion.
FINDINGS OF FACT :
1 ) The new sign will be built on an existing sign base .
2) Placing a sign on a different portion of the property would
be difficult because of the existing configuration of
automobile access to the site .
3) The proposed sign would be at least some improvement of what
has historically appeared on the site.
4) This sign would not alter the character of the area.
5) Although the sign doesn't meet the Ordinance with respect to
setback:, it will be brought into conformance as far as area
is concerned.
VOTE : 5 Yes; 1 No GRANTED
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PACE 12
SECRETARY HOARD: The next case is appeal number 1553 for 216 and
218 Second Street :
Appeal of Robert Leathers, Architect, for a use
variance under Section 30 . 25, Columns 2 and 3
of the Zoning Ordinance, and an area variance
under Section 30. 25,, Column 11 for a deficient
front yard setback, to permit the use of the
house at 216 Second Street for a day care cen-
ter plus residential unit, and' the vacant lot
at 218 Second Street for a parking lot serving
patrons and employees of the Ithaca Fitness
Center at 119 Third Street . The properties
which are to be combined, are ,located in an
R-3b ( residential, multiple-dwelling) use dis-
trict in which the proposed day care center is
a permitted use and the parking lot is not a
permitted use. The appellant must obtain a use
variance before a permit can be issued for the
parking lot, and must obtain an area variance
for the deficient front yard before a certif-
icate of occupancy can be issued for the new
use of the house for a day care center . This
appeal was postponed from the March 1984 meet-
ing at the request of the appellant .
MS. FARRELL : Before we get started I have a question about
whether we should be considering this tonight given the action of
the Planning Board. If they wanted to defer on the parking lot
they should have (unintelligible) .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: The chair would like to ask a question of the
appellant . As I read the application, the term "neighborhood
parking area" -do you understand that to mean for the use of res-
idents of the area and would be restricted that way or is your
intent to - I can't help but know about the other appeal and your
discussion with the Planners and I would just like to try to i-
dentify what this parking lot is for . What is it we are hearing,
in this first case?
MR. SMITHSON: If I may, I would like to start by introducing
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PANE 13
myself . My name is Frank Smithson, my address is 109 W. Seneca
Street, I am a lawyer representing The Ithaca Fitness Center . As
I understand it, our primary focus tonight will be the area vari-
ance at 216 Center Street and, of course, we are willing and
eager to answer questions about the rest of this variance but as
I understand it, I think the Board will only be considering the
area variance at 216 Second Street because the Planning Board
deferred action on the rest of it . Now is that an incorrect un-'
derstanding on our part?
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: We are trying to arrive at than .
MR . BLAIS: I can answer your question about the parking area. My
name is Steve Blais, I live at 207 W. Clinton Street . I work for
Robert Leathers and we are also representing Mr . Martin with the
appeal . That phrase as it is used in the appeal said "the park-
ing area will be constructed in conformance with requirements in
Section 301. 37 of the Zoning Ordinance for neighborhood parking
areas" . And what it doesn' t say is that this is , a neighborhood
parking area - what it says is that the parking area would meet
requirements established for a neighborhood parking area which
are setback and a screen of plantings or a fence, essentially .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: The use is what I am trying to . .
MR. BLAIS: Okay. The use of the parking area would be for the
Ithaca Fitness Center and for the child care center .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: So we really have - as I understand it - I ' m
speaking to my Board now - as I see it., we would 'have a use
variance as well as an area variance involved with the approval
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1964 PACE 14
of the development of a parking lot in that vacant corner lot .
SECRETARY HOARD: I think in the wake of the Planning Board' s
decision, Mr-. Blais came to me and said, "look what the appellant
would like to do is go ahead with the appeal for- the setback re-
quir-ement for- the house so that they could use that for a day
care center, set aside the appeal for a parking , lot for• now until
the Planning Board has acted. " So we ar•e dealing with a portion
of this appeal .
MR. BOOTH: So they have withdrawn part of it naw?
SECRETARY HOARD: Well the Planning Board has withdrawn it for
them. Is that correct Steve?
MR. BLAIS: More or• less cor-r•ect . The idea is simply - we came
here tonight hoping to gain relief from the front yard
requirements that ar-e associated with 216 Second Street, which is
the house to be used as a child care center- and also to be lived
in by Bob Martin's daughter., who would run the child care center .
That 's what we are asking for- in terms of zoning . I brought a
plan here which I will give everyone a copy of . . .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well, before we start, I want to make sure and
have the appellant and the Board agree that we ae-e hearing an
appeal to change the use of a single family r•esi0ence at 216
Second Street?
MR. BLAIS : That is correct, right .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: To an apartment - it is two family now? Thank
you. So we ar-e changing a two-family residence to a one
apartment and a day care center- without any reference - without
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 15
respect to the ultimate decision that may result from the
discussion on 218 . So we are not hearing 218 at all?
MR. SMITHSON: That is our understanding and our desire.
MR. MARTIN: That is correct .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Alright., we' ve got two, I think Barbara has
identified two of you and would you introduce yourself please?
MR. MARTIN: I 'm Bob Martin., I 'm the director and owner of the
Ithaca Fitness Center and the property that we are talking about .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Thank you.
MR. SMITHSON: I 'm going to defer to Mr . Blais .
MR. BLAIS : First I have some copies of the plan that shows three
parking spaces being located on 216 Second Street . As I read the
Zoning Ordinance and I believe I can say that I was advised by
Mr . Hoard, for a property in a residential zone., it is allowable
to have up to three parking spaces on the property without any
special provisions and so essentially what we hope we are looking
at is the front yard deficiency. In other words we are just pro-
posing to take advantage of an existing curb cut on 218 Second
Street and park three cars to serve the child care center and the
apartment - anticipating - at Second Street . I should probably
mention that we hope to take the corner of Madison Street and
Second Street - that portion of 218 Second Street and use that as
a play area for the children that would be staying at the child
care center during the day .
MS . FARRELL : So the parking lot idea (unintelligible) now is
just a play area?
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 16
MR. BLAIS : We are hoping to continue on the parking area after
the Planning Advisory Board comes to a ruling .
MS . FARRELL : So the play area is just this part that is behind -
where is the play area?
MS . BAGNARGI : May I see? The proposed parking . . .
MS . FARRELL : Okay, it will be this front corner - I see.
MR. BLAIS : That is correct .
MR . BOOTH: That would not eventually be used in a parking plan
proposal?
MR. BLAIS: NO.
MS . BAGNARGI : Yes, that is what he said.
MR . BOOTH: It would not?
MR. BLAIS: Well - getting a little bit off what is right here.
That - the ideas we have for a revised parking plan would leave
that corner alone or use it as play area rather than parking
area .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Well, now the reason we are involved with two
properties in this discussion is that you proposed to meet the
off street parking requirement in the adjacent property . No?
MR. BLAIS: The parking spaces shown are on 216 - the same
property .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Access to . . . . okay . So you use the other
property for access to the parking, pardon me, not for the
parking The parking itself is on 216 property lot.. right?
MR. BLAIS : That access is guaranteed because Mr . Martin owns the
property. The curb cut and part of the driveway are existing .
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 17
MS . BAGNARDI : What are your plans to shelter this play ground
area?
MR. BLAIS: Well the intention of the play ground area would be
that it would be used by the occupants of the child care
center . . .
MS . BAGNARDI : Not by the neighborhood?
MR. BLAIS: So that.. in other words, it wouldn't be a lot of kids
so the activity could be controlled by Bob ' s daughter who is
running the child care center and it would be fenced with a
(unintelligible) fence. We haven' t built a design for it,, per
se, yet so 1 didn't draw anything on the plan. But it would be
screened .
MS . BAGNARDI : When had you hoped to open the child care center,
by fall?
MR. BLAIS : Ask Bob that one .
MR. MARTIN: Probably in the summertime.
MS . BAGNARDI : And then at the same time that it is opened, all
of the playground area would then be fenced in, the whole
operation would be ready to go?
MR. MARTIN: Here is the fence, if you would like to take a look
at it . They are putting the fence between two (unintelligible)
right now (unintelligible) Probably be very similar - a very
nice looking fence.
MS . BAGNARDI : Wood?
MR. MARTIN: Wood, yes. But of course there will be shrubbery
and stuff in front of the fence. It wouldn' t be right up against
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 18
the walk .
MS . BAGNAROI : I see.
MR . MARTIN: I originally had it in the back but we put it that
way to screen the neighbor from seeing the parking lot -
otherwise the parking lot, if it ever comes, will be in the back
looking at another parking lot .
MS . BAGNARDI : I see, this . . .
MR. MARTIN: It could go either way back or front but I would
rather have cars back on its own property and away from the
residential area and cars toward the center and the Quick ' s
Garage parking lot (unintelligible)
MS . BAGNARDI : I see, thank you.
MS . FARRELL : Is there enough space to have access to the
proposed parking lot from the side of the day care center on
Second Street rather than over on Madison?
MR. MARTIN: No.
MR. BLAIS: I would agree with that . There is an existing
sidewalk and fire escape on - to the north property line on
Second Street and the side yard on the south line is very narrow.
One could build a drive but it would be very tight situation.
MR. MARTIN: You would have to cut down a very nice tree. It
isn' t shown .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Commissioner-, a question. As I see it, this
application for use - the use is approved and the only deficiency
is front yard setback?
SECRETARY HOARD: That is correct .
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 19
MS . FARRELL : Can I ask:, is this going to be a drop-in type child
care center for patrons of the fitness center or is it going to
be a regular enrolled center or is it planned?
MR. MARTIN: It is mainly going to be a personal pet of my
daughters. Although, as long as it is next to the day care
center we will have drop-ins .
MS . FARRELL : You will have drop-ins from the Center?
MR. MARTIN: From the Fitness Center, yes . But that is not the
main purpose that I want it .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Question Jean? Further questions? Thank you.
Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in support of this
application? Anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to this
application? Yes, come forward.
MR. SCHLATHER: It is not in opposition.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: That is all right . Come up and be neutral .
MR. SCHLATHER: I 'm Raymond Schlather and I am one of the First
Ward Alderpeople and the neighbors met in connection with this
and the other request that had been made for variances and the
sentiment of the community was that they were definitely in favor
of the child care facility - they felt that it was necessary and
everybody wants it - there was one concern raised about the
height of the fence on the south line and I think: Bob had agreed
- and I don' t know - Bob had you agreed. . .
MR. MARTIN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
MR. SCHLATHER: Okay, the extra twelve inches - that ' s all taken
care of? That 's fine.
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 20
MR. MARTIN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
MR. SCHLATHER: Very well - that 's taken care of then there are
no other concerns. We did have reservations on the parking but
that will be addressed at a later date.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Anyone else who wishes to speak: in opposition
to this application? (no one)
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2., 1984 PAGE 21
The Hoard considered the appeal of Robert Leathers, Architect,
for an area variance under Section 30 . 25, Column 11 for a
deficient front yard setback, to permit the use of the house at
216 Second Street for a day care center• plus residential unit .
The decision of the Hoard was as follows :
MR. BOOTH: I move that the Hoard grant the area variance
requested in appeal number 1553 as modified to
deal ,just with the day care center .
MR. TOMLAN: I second the motion.
FINDINGS OF FACT :
1 ) The Ordinance permits this proposed use in the area.
2) The existing building is too close to the front property line
to meet the Ordinance requirements and it would be very
difficult to move it back .
3) The proposed use is completely consistent with the character
of the area.
VOTE : 6 Yes; 0 No GRANTED AS MODIFIED
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 22
SECRETARY HOARD: The next case is appeal number 1555, 321
College Avenue:
Appeal of Craig and Keith Schauf ler for an
area variance under Section 30 . 25, Columns 6
and 15 of the Zoning Ordinance for deficient
lot size and deficient rear yard setback, to
permit the addition of a second floor with
mezzanine to the existing one-story building
at 321 College Avenue (College Liquor . The
proposed use for a restaurant is permitted in
the B-2b (business) use district in which the
property is located; however., under Section
30 . 49 the appellant must obtain an area vari-
ance for the listed deficiencies before a
building permit can be issued for the addi-
tion .
MR. TAUBE : I 'm David Taube., I ' m an architect, and I 'm represent-
ing Craig and Keith Schaufler who are here with us . The property
is located on College Avenue ,just south of Dryden., between the
Collegetown Deli and the Cameras and Things, Connection building
next door . It is a one story building, the lot itself is thirty
feet by sixty feet . The one story building was constructed thir-
ty-four years ago - it has on it a six and one-half foot alley
that is to the north of the property. The building only covers
twenty-three and one-half feet of frontage of the total thirty
foot frontage. We are requesting a variance for the ten foot
rear setback and for the minimum lot size of twenty-five hundred
square feet . The lot is presently eighteen hundred square feet .
I would also like to think - as we get into this that we are re-
questing a variance for an existing one story structure which
would be taken down to build a new structure which - although may
be a little deceiving, would still be a one story structure as
,
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 23
determined by the Building Department., which is a little bit of
irony because we have a cellar., below grade essentially . The
grade from College Avenue slopes up towards the east almost
twelve feet, thus the first floor is actually a basement . The
restaurant level is a one story - the one story portion of the
building and then the mezzanine does not qualify. We may put a
plaque up to that extent - it is probably the only one story,
thirty-eight foot structure in the city. The liquor store itself
has been operating for about twenty years and Keith Schaufler
recently assumed the operation following the death of his father .
When he assumed the operation of the liquor store., it was quite
evident that a problem that had existed for quite some time was a
serious one and that was simply a matter of the available space.
The building itself is approximately twelve hundred square feet
of interior space, part of which is occupied for use as toilet
facilities and mechanical space. Because the layout of this
space, the remaining eleven hundred to twelve hundred square feet
is not that efficient for the actual layout and display of the
merchandise., our firm was retained by the Schauflers to look
into the problem and the first element that was suggested - or
possible, was simply to fill in the alley. I can pass this
around. The alley is to the north - it is too narrow for a truck
- it is just wide enough for garbage and it has been used very
efficiently along the street simply as a zone for tossing litter .
MS , FARRELL : Question. Does the alley connect anyplace?
MR. TAUBE : No. It simply deadends in the back . And there are
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 24
no doors on either• building. If we were to add., simply, to the
alley., we would pick up just under twenty-five percent additional
square footage which was half of what is needed to operate the
store efficiently. At present, because of the size of the store,
certain storage is maintained off the site. At critical times
-peak: times when quantities - large shipments have to be made for
peak seasons, the additional supplies have to be stored off the
site and trucked in as needed., which has presented great diffi-
culties in that regard. The merchandise itself then becomes very
limited in terms of the amount of inventory that can be main-
tained on the site. We are looking for an increase of approxi-
mately 50% of additional square footage which can actually be
stretched with newly designed space by gaining SEI% additional
square footage you are really increasing the amount of inventory
by quite a bit more within an economic use of the space, simply
by changing the design from the present design. In looking at
that we also discovered very clearly that the cost for filling in
the alley, would be, in themselves, quite high because of the
design of the space and the inability to get into an alley and
actually construct the footings and the walls that are necessary .
There were discussions early on with the Planning Department re-
garding the intent of Planning plans for Gollegetown and utili-
zation of the site. And we began looking at greater• utilization
of the site which would enable us to demolish the existing struc-
ture which is inefficient and certainly we cannot go up effi-
ciently to get just simply storage for the retail space, and of
82A MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 25
course we cannot go down to get basement space.
MR. BOOTH: Why not?
MR. TAUBE : Well., going down would be extremely difficult, exca-
vating within the existing structure. Going up, we face the
problem of having additional square footage, presumably for stor-
age - we couldn' t do it for retail without providing handicapped
accessibility. So we ran into a series of catch 22 issues - part
of which were also dictated by the code requirements., since we
would be building new or adding, we would have to comply with
those new handicapped code requirements . About that time discus-
sion came up to try and better• utilize the site and this is some-
thing that the Planning Board was concerned with because of the
nature of the one story building . College Avenue did have larger•
buildings on it at one time - it certainly has f•r•om these photo-
graphs, numerous four and five story structures . Bear in mind
that anything that would be done to the building whatsoever would
require the variances that we are presently seeking. We began to
examine residential use above the liquor store to help justify
the costs of construction► to gain the retail space that was nec-
essary. And, again, because of the site - 30 x GD foot site -
and dealing with construction code setback requirements, not zon-
ing setback requirements for• natural light and ventilation, we
would have had to set the building back twenty feet from the rear
yard for the housing portion. Dealing with that sort of design►,
we simply could not develop quality apartments and abandoned that
idea. Shortly thereafter it came to light an interested tenant
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 26
for a restaurant within this space., and actually jelled rather
nicely with the frustration we were going through of trying to
justify building on for the liquor store in itself . Ned
Macksoud, who owns Ruloffs., is the interested tenant and has ne-
gotiated lease terms with the Schauflers on the basis that we can
provide a restaurant on the site. What we had shown is, as I
mentioned, a liquor store that is on-grade and a restaurant that
is on the second level with a mezzanine which is a third of the
area of the main floor - on another level above that . The liquor
store occupies approximately eleven hundred square feet of the
first floor but also has six hundred square feet of storage space
in the basement . The restaurant entry would be off to the side -
the main entrance coming into the primary dining space which
would be a two-story space and would overlook the street . It is
the intent of Mr . Macksoud to try and have french doors that
would open up so that people - in the nice weather in Ithaca -
which we will have someday - can relate to the street . It is not
that high off but a grade and it is something that he feels would
be very desirable for his operation. Having come into the main
floor there is a kitchen, handicapped facilities, toilet facili-
ties and a wheelchair lift which is designed to bring the handi-
capped up to the second floor . There is also secondary exiting
in the rear which comes directly at grade. As I said., the build-
ing is thirty-eight feet tall and is designed with a brick facade
and the operable windows on the second level . The restaurant
itself would have a capacity . . .
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2., 1984 PAGE 27
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Pardon me just a minute. Without further- dis-
cussion, give me just a moment if you will . When you get through
with this plan, granted a variance and building permit and com-
pleted as suggested here, the liquor- store will then have how
many square feet storage and retail combined?
MR. TAUBE : Almost eighteen hundred square feet .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: And how much does it have now?
MR. TAUBE : Twelve hundred, including toilet and mechanical
facilities . And storage, right .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: In other- words the total used by the business _
today is eighteen hundred?
MR. TAUBE : No. At present the building is twelve hundred square
feet .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Total of twelve hundred. And with this plan it
will go to seventeen hundred? I heard you say eleven hundred and
six hundred .
MR. TAUBE : Yes., right - seventeen to eighteen hundred square
feet which would gain fifty percent usable space. The twelve
hundred square feet of existing space - that twelve hundred
includes the toilet facilities, mechanical facilities so the net
floor area is under- twelve hundred - it is much closer to eleven
hundred square foot figure .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Other- than having trouble at rush times in
keeping all the stock on premises, what other difficulties does
the operation experience now as a liquor- store?
MR. TAUBE : Lack of retail display space because the entire
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 28
square footage is used both for inventory and storage. They are
simply trying to do the entire operation within too small an
amount of space.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Is it, therefore, a losing proposition or
awkward and it would be nice if it were bigger or
MR. TAUBE : Without question it would improve the operation and
the profitability. I don't think there is a question about that,
I ' m not addressing that specifically because since we are dealing
with an area variance I ' m more concerned with the unique
situation that we have in dealing with the site .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I 'm trying to develop more particularly what
the situation is now.
MR. TAUBE : Right .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: You've helped me some, thank you.
MR. TAUBE : What we are requesting, in fact, is the relief of the
twenty-five hundred square foot requirement dealing with a site
that has been that way for many years - at least thirty-five
years when the building was constructed. And the ten foot rear
set back - also the building has occupied that full site straight
back - as to the buildings adjacent to 321 College Avenue. The
findings of the Design Review Board and the Planning Department
and the Planning Board have all been extremely positive and I say
that in the absence of any of the written literature which I have
not received. The Design Review Board felt that it was an appro-
priate application and utilization of the site as did the Plan-
ning staff which strongly recommended it at the Planning Board
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 29
session. The Planning Board agreed that it is an appropriate
project for the site., proper utilization but I believe passed on
without recommendation to this Board because of the parking
issues that the Planning Board is dealing with as an overall
issue in Collegetown. We feel that - and the Schauflers had
stressed to me the desire to do a project - in essence that they
can be proud of . They expect to be here a long time - they are
lifelong Ithaca residents and joining with Mr• . Macksoud as tenant
for a restaurant., we know that we have a restauranteur who has
had an extremely successful operation in Collegetown in former
Ruloffs. We believe that this is a unique site because of its
size and it has existed in that fashion and presents us with
great difficulty in trying to solve a problem on such a small
site without utilising the entire site and without beginning to
use the height advantage which is allowable in the district . In
addition a ten foot setback does not present - at least from
everything that I have been able to access - any advantages as
such to the property or• to the properties adjacent to it, be-
cause of the nature of the adjacent properties . The building
directly to the north is a retail operation - has no windows pre-
sently - for• obvious reasons., mainly security, to the south into
the alley. The project that I believe has already received a
building permit to the south - Mr . Avramis' s building has been
designed, taking into account a building that would be next to it
in the form of• a three or• four story structure. So the require-
ments for their building are in compliance with all the natural
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 30
light and ventilation needed for apartments. The property di-
rectly to the east which is, as I mentioned, is actually twelve
feet, or eleven feet above grade on College Avenue - has on it
right now a garage, a very old garage that apparently is used for
storage and there is another simple little structure in front of
that . I will pass this around - this is the view standing on top
of the roof of the liquor store looking back, and directly behind
it is the side of the very old garage storage structure. The
alley shown here indicates there are no doors into either proper-
ty . The property to the east - again would not be restricted
presumably from development if we were to maintain construction
all the way to the rear property because in the form of a retail
operation, just as we would be doing., a retail operation does not
necessitate the natural light or ventilation towards the rear and
would not present practical difficulties for anyone,, as this does
not to us .
MR. BOOTH: What if they build non-commercial?
MR. TAUBE : If they build residential, they are required, again,
by the New York State Building Code, to have that twenty foot
setback minimum, depending on height requirement, that setback
begins moving back further as the height requirement increases .
MR. BOOTH: Would the setback for your building serve to help
adjoining uses that were non-commercial if they were developed on
Linden Avenue?
MR. TAUBE : Well., no, because this property would already have
its necessary light and ventilation towards the rear .
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 31
MR . BOOTH: I understand that but wouldn' t ten more feet improve
that?
MR. TAUBE : It might improve it but I think what we are
presenting is that the practical difficulty of this property. . .
MR. BOOTH: What if the pr-oper-ty north of you is developed for
apartments? That ' s what we ar-e going to be considering tonight .
MR. TAUBE : They have taken into account the fact that there is a
building adjacent to them. I have looked at the plans which is
where we got the information for their building and they have
provided the necessary light and . . .
SECRETARY HOARD: To the north.
MR. TAUBE : To the north - they could provide the same thing .
There is no side yard r-equir•ement so I don' t think the side yard
issue would be a problem. If - I 'm not even sure which would be
the rear• yard - I guess it is determined where the address is
-College or• Dryden for• this property so there would be a rear
yard one way or• the other . I think the intent - what has been
shown here clearly is the intent to do a highly desirable build-
ing.. as I said, one which all prior - three prior- boards have
felt is appr•opr•iate and that based on the small site that has
existed there for- a long time and the ten foot setback which does
represent sixteen percent of the site•, that it is not unreason-
able to grant the variance and provide our client with a building
that would work on such a small site.
MR . BOOTH: How big is this site compared to the sites both north
and south of it, square footage?
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 32
MR. TAUBE : They are both larger but I 'm not certain how much
larger . I don' t think the property map that we have indicates .
MR . BOOTH: How big is it compared to other properties on College
Avenue, in general?
MR. TAUBE : I think it is probably one of the smallest without
question .
MR. BOOTH: But you don' t know?
MR. TAUBE : No. But as I said - if you ,just marched down from
the corner,, Student Agencies site is probably - well the Student
Agencies site., in fact., is somewheres in the neighborhood, I
believe, of four thousand square feet . The Duffy' s site is
almost the same because I know the two sites combined are almost
nine thousand. I 'm not certain what Mr . Travis' s is - it is
certainly larger .
MS . COOkINGHAM: What is going to be the estimated seating
capacity for the restaurant?
MR. TAUBE : The building rode would dictate that it be no greater
than ninety-three. It is anticipated that the capacity would be
around ninety. 1 believe when you do a layout, it is going to be
difficult to get more than eighty-five or thereabouts in there
but the code would dictate ninety-three by square footage .
MS . FARRELL : Right now the building that is there goes all the
way to the back property line?
MR. TAUBE : Yes., the present building goes all the way back .
MS . FARRELL : So there is the alley and then the building?
MR. TAUBE : Right .
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 1, 1884 PAGE 33
MS . FARRELL : Ar►d it fills the whole site except for the alley?
MR . TAUBE : Yes .
MR. BOOTH: But you are going to tear down► the existing building?
MR. TAUBE : Yes we would .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Any further questions?
MS . COOKINGHAM: I ,just wanted to ask Tom to review the
handicapped requirement?
SECRETARY HOARD: They are complying .
MS . COOKINGHAM: Are you saying that if you are going to build
for your- own facility and it is just not going to be a customer
area - it is just going to be for the use of the employees of the
building., you still have to meet the handicapped requirement?
MR. TAUBE : No., you mean for storage?
MS . COOKINGHAM: Right .
MR. TAUBE : Not under- these circumstances. Under others it would
necessitate it .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: This is a restaurant .
MR. TAUBE : Right a restaurant and it complys with the
handicapped .
MS . COOKINGHAM: I thought - somewhere in the discussion► you said
that it wouldn' t be possible just to add on for your storage
because you would have some handicapped requirements that had to
be met . Did I misunderstand that?
MR. TAUBE : Yes. I think maybe when I was talking about going up
or- down., if we were doing it for storage - storage going up - we
would have difficulties (unintelligible) with the space going up .
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 34
It is impractical . . . .
MS . COOK.INGHAM: Is it impractical because of the handicapped law
requirements?
MR. TAUBE : No. Just the difficulty of going up structurally
with a small building and the costs and the benefits and the
return. I just have a question since we did not have an
opportunity here to see the recommendations that were made by the
Planning Board., I was curious to know if there was anything
contrary to what I was assuming .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Motion made and seconded to make no
recommendation to BZA because of parking problem but added
comment that this was a good project . Further questions? Thank
you. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in support of this
application? Is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition
to this application.
SECRETARY HOARD: I have two letters Mr . Chairman. One is from
the Design Review Board and you all have copies of that so in the
interest of time. . . the other• is from Jason Fane: "Dear Boards :
The appeal of Craig, Keith,. and Christine Schaufler for 321
College Avenue makes good sense and I hope you will approve their
application. Side yards are detrimental in a commercial zone
because they break the continuous wall of retail store fronts
which are important to a good retail environment . Similarly back
lots serve no useful purpose; they can only reduce the amount of
construction and therefore reduce pr•oper•ty and sales tax
collections and also reduce employment . Finally, the minimum lot
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 35
size should be waived as it, too serves no useful purpose. Very
truly yours, /s/ Jason Fane"
MR. TAUBE : While having the letters read I remembered one point,
the Schauflers did send out all the required notices and received
no negative comments either in writing or verbally .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: The Chair would like to point out the non-
recommendation from the Planning and Development Board consti-
tutes an action, as I understand it., in other words they con-
sidered the case - they haven' t refused to hear it or whatever
they do and they apparently formed no conclusions. I will say
that in regard to our- discussion on the effect on governmental
facilities an appeal in this area with the present confusion, in
my mind on whether this is an area in which there are severe
questions on parking - whether increases and utilization of sites
and buildings is being met or is intended to be met by the legis-
lative body - however-, we are looking at a zoning ordinance as it
stands, which requires no off-street parking and therefore there
is no off-street parking deficiency either in the existing struc-
ture and the proposed structure. Obviously it will put an in-
creased burden on such public facilities - there being a finite
number of spaces in the Collegetown area.
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 36
The Board considered the appeal of Craig and Keith Schaufler for
an area variance under Section 30 . 15., Columns G and 15 of the
Zoning Ordinance for deficient lot size and deficient rear yard
setback, to permit the addition of a second floor with mezzanine
to the existing one-story building at 321 College Avenue. The
decision of the Board was as follows:.
MR. TOMLAN: I move that the Board deny the area variance
requested in appeal number 1555 .
MS , COOKINGHAM: I second the motion.
FINDINGS OF FACT :
1) The minimum lot size requirement would be exacerbated by the
addition of additional height .
2) The special conditions clause of the ordinance was not fully
dealt with in that it is not the only lot of its approximate
dimension in the area .
37 The proposed variance would obviously increase the traffic
flow and inevitable parking problems in the neighborhood.
From personal observation there are serious traffic problems
and parking deficiencies that seem to be area-wide.
VOTE : G Yes; 0 No AREA VARIANCE REQUEST DENIED
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1084 PAGE 37
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Can we hear the next case please?
SECRETARY HOARD: The next, case is appeal number 1556, 111 W. Jay
Street :
Appeal of Margaret A. Cecce for an area
variance under Section 38 . 25., Columns 4,
11, and 12 of the Zoning Ordinance for de-
ficient off-street parking, and deficient
setbacks for both front yards, to permit
the enlargement of an existing exterior
stairway landing on the east side of the
house at 111 W. Jay Street . The property
is located in an R-2b ( residential, one-and
two-family dwellings) use district in which
the existing use as a two-family dwelling
is permitted; however the appellant must
obtain a variance for the listed area defi-
ciencies before a building permit can be
issued for the alteration.
MS . CECCE : I 'm Margaret Cecce, 111 W. Jay Street . Last year I
came asking for• a variance for- increasing a deck which was wider
and would have added width 'and added another deficiency. This
year I am considering no increase in width so it would not in-
crease the number of already existing deficiencies which the
property has and it would allow better access in terms of getting
large items into and out of the second floor apartment and more
convenience for- my tenant without changing any of the other exis-
ting deficiencies of the property .
MR. BOOTH: This is just involving the enlargement of that
existing landing?
MS . CECCE : Yes it involves the landing currently is 4 x 4 feet .
I intend to extend it back 6 feet so it would be a 4 x 10 foot
landing. So it will just involve extending the landing, no
increase in roof or• any of the other• things - .just for access
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 38
into and out of the apartment to give her some maneuverability .
MS . FARRELL : When I looked at the house - the landing that you
are talking about is sort of a little bit above ground level - it
is right there and you go up . . . . ?
MS . CECCE : No the landing is at the second floor .
MS . FARRELL : Okay .
MR. BOOTH: On the east side of the house?
MS . CECCE : Right .
MS . FARRELL : So its the porch?
MS . CECCE : Right . It would give - she would be able to have a
chair• out there if she wanted to in the summertime but it also
currently - the four foot landing makes it extremely difficult to
get things into and out of the apartment .
MS . FARRELL : And that is her exit?
MS . CECCE : That is her exit .
MR. BOOTH: This does not increase any of the existing
deficiencies?
MS . CECCE : Right and it would not add - where if I had gone
wider it would have added another deficiency - staying the same
width does not affect the side yard setback . Any other
questions?
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: You have done well with our language. Are
there any further questions? Thank you. Is there anyone else
who wishes to speak: in support of this application? Is there
anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to this application? Do
I hear a motion?
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 40
The Board considered the request of Margaret A. Cecce for an area
variance under Section 30 . 25, Columns 4, 11 and 12 of the Zoning
Ordinance for deficient off-street parking, and deficient
setbacks for both front yards., to permit the enlargement of an
existing exterior stairway landing on the east side of the house .
The decision of the Board was as follows:
MS . BAGNARDI : I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in appeal number 1556 for 111 West
Jay Street .
MR. BOOTH: I second the motion.
FINDINGS OF FACT :
1 ) The use would not affect the character of the neighborhood .
2) The side yard deficiency is a practical difficulty which
makes compliance impossible .
3) This change observes the spirit of the Ordinance and does not
affect the character of the area.
VOTE : 6 YES : 0 NO GRANTED
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 41
SECRETARY HOARD: The next case is appeal number 1557, 415 Elm
Street :
Appeal of Judith Jackson for a use variance
under Section 30 . 25., Column 2 of the Zoning
Ordinance to permit the conversion of the
existing house at 415 Elm Street to up to
six apartments . The property is located in
an R-2a ( residential, one- and two-family
dwellings) use district in which the
existing use as a single-family dwelling
with income apartment is a permitted use;
the proposed conversion to a multiple
dwelling requires a use variance under
Section 30 . 57 of the Zoning Ordinance before
a building permit or certificate of
occupancy can be issued for the change in
use .
MS . JACKSON: I am Judith Jackson and I own the property at 415
Elm Street . I came here about two years ago to ask for a vari-
ance because at that time someone wanted to buy the house to use
it as a country inn - bed and breakfast type place.. It was fin-
ally turned down because there weren' t enough yes votes and the
two reasons were I had not demonstrated economic hardship for the
property and the property had been listed for sale for a rela-
tively short period of time. It had been on the market three
months by that time. I am back asking for- another use variance
to allow the building to be converted into up to six separate
units to try and make it attractive to someone who would be in-
terested in buying it . I need to sell it . The request for six
units is for• the following information. The house has over six
thousand square feet living space in it . Plumbing is already in
the house for five kitchens - it has four full bathrooms and two
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 42
half bathrooms - six outside entrances - it has two stairways to
the second floor - two stairways to the third floor - the amount
of space available in the house - in the layout of the house as
it is now divide quite comfortably into six, one and two bedroom
apartments - quality apartments (unintelligible) people who could
afford the rents necessary to support the building. Supporting
the fixed expenses of financing, taxes, insurance, general main-
tenance and also to provide the utilities which have to go along
with the building . That support would be - needed would be in
the area of twenty-two to twenty-four hundred dollars a month or
about four hundred dollars per apartment which are realistic
rents for nice apartments of that type in that area - in an area
like that - including utilities . If you just divided the house
sort of mathematically - simply - there are twenty-three rooms in
the house plus the bathrooms . If you had six apartments, you
would have to have six kitchens and six living rooms to make an
apartment . Those twelve rooms taken out of the twenty-three ex-
isting rooms would leave eleven rooms and even if you turned
every one of the eleven rooms over to bedrooms for• the different
six apartments, that is, in effect, eleven people at the most .
There are seven people living there now so it is not a huge num-
ber of people that the house would be holding. And there is more
than enough parking to support that number of apartments already
without changing the front of the house or the driveway or any-
thing at all . The house sits on two point six acres -almost ex-
actly in the center of the property which is about six times more
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 43
property than is necessary - legally necessary for that many
apartments and I don't think it would change the residential
character of the neighborhood in any major way. My appeal is
based on hardship . I feel that my property qualifies for a vari-
ance based on this economic hardship factor under the zoning reg-
ulations . It is a conforming property in an R-2a zone. I ' ve had
it on the market for two years . The first year it was on the
market - it has been on the market with Century 21 which is a
multiple listing agency - the first year we played up its size -
the many rooms., the large amount of city property available with
it, interesting but unusual features in the house -called it an
estate. The second year, I rented out the apartment and the
apartment gets $395. 00 a month - it has two bedrooms, played down
the size, called it a four- bedroom house with an income apart-
ment, shut off the third floor - called that extra space - re-
duced the price and I haven't had a single offer on the house
under any circumstances - in almost two years - in May it will
have .been on the market two years .
MS . FARRELL : Zero, nothing? (unintelligible)
MS . JACKSON: No, not even any informal inquiries like that sort
of thing - would you do this or- would you consider - nothing .
The only discussed interest - not with me but with the real
estate people is (unintelligible) A few weeks ago I asked Century
21 to please tell me how I can sell this house and the sales man-
ager, Ed Dellert, came and toured the house and he had an immedi-
ate reaction and that was that I quit trying to sell it as a
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 44
single family house because he didn't feel it was going to sell
because it was too huge - it also has the drawback - in that case
- of sharing the common rear boundary with West Village which is
an apartment complex of perhaps two hundred apartments . I think
the house has unique disadvantages that have prevented it so far
from selling - and will continue to prevent it from selling as a
single family house. I have already demonstrated its size -there
is not another house anywhere like it in the area - probably not
on West Hill - maybe not in Ithaca. Between the two streets - it
is on Elm Street - between the two streets on either side of it
which are West Village Drive and Elmcrest Circle - the only other
buildings there is on West Village Drive there is a small two-
bedroom house and next to that is a little bungalow that they own
and rent out and there are several empty lots and then my proper-
ty which is about three hundred feet across the front and then
more empty lots and then Elmcrest Circle. The rear boundary is
the West Village parking lot - the two of us meet . So nothing
around me shares my problems either in size or location or con-
version possibilities. It has been two years - and a lot of time
and a lot of money and effort - as I say, I have had nothing -
absolutely nothing. I think the variance I ask for would make
only a small change in the building as it is used right now -
just mathematics tells you you can't make more rooms out of - it
is a big building but it is limited and it also - because it na-
turally divides - because of the plumbing and the stairways and
other• things - that is not., in my opinion an unreasonable divi-
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 45
Sion of the building . I think the fact that it has been two
years and the singular circumstances and hardship of the house -
peculiar-, unique hardship and sharing the boundary with West Vil-
lage - which is a zoning area that would allow my sort of project
if I was mooned the same as West Village and the fact that I feel
the conversion would have - of the many things one could ask for
- a minimal affect on the neighborhood, I am asking for the vari-
ance .
MR. BOOTH: What about dividing it into three or four units, have
you considered that possibility?
MS . JACKSON: I can't do this, to begin with, I 'm trying to make
it attractive to a buyer .
MR. BOOTH: I understand that .
MS . JACKSON: However-, again, if you divide the house up into X
number of rooms and - you know - the less kitchens and living
rooms, the more bedrooms you have and if you have larger bed-
roomed apartments, you would begin to attract groups . Small one
and two bedroom apartments I think, attracts one or two people,
couples, young - in an area like that, it is not suitable for
raising a family - it would be for young couples or working peo-
ple .
MS . FARRELL : You might have more chance if you could have it
owner-occupied with a couple of other - you know - a significant
portion of your house with a couple of other apartments . Just
out of curiousity, did you buy (unintelligible)
MS . JACKSON: I was married nine years ago and we bought this and
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 46
things were a lot different .
MR. BOOTH: The apartment is rented now?
MS . JACKSON: Yes .
MS . FARRELL : The other question I had, it sounds like really
there could be a lot more people in it than the - what did you
say eleven bedrooms, or• something - if the bedrooms are big
enough they could have two people in them (unintelligible)
MS . JACKSON: One can always extend the possibilities and that is
true but, technically that is not okay and . . .
MS . FARRELL : Well if there are (unintelligible)
MS . JACKSON: Some are and some aren' t but I think you also have
to consider that we are talking about a fairly expensive building
and a conversion and I don't think it would make any sense for
anybody to take it and turn it into junk . It is not in a college
popular area, it is all the way across town and it is residential
I mean, anything is possible, of course.
MS . BAGNARDI : Mrs. Jackson, how long have you owned the house,
did you say?
MS . JACKSON: Since 1975 .
MS . BAGNARDI : What is the assessment of the property?
MS . JACKSON: Tax assessment?
MS . BAGNARDI : Yes .
MS . JACKSON: $82, 500 . I think .
MS . BAGNARDI : Have you done a lot of work to the house since you
bought it in the 70 ' s?
MS . JACKSON: I will have to guess at this .
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 47
MS . BAGNARDI : Have you done any renovation to bathrooms or any
of the kitchens or . . .
MS . JACKSON: Well, actual renovations to make . . .
MS . BAGNARDI : Furnace., new furnace, air conditioning - did you
put any new windows in or . . .
MS . JACKSON: Well things like storm windows, carpeting the whole
place and . . . painting the driveway. . .
MS . BAGNARDI : You did put the new storm windows in? When you
were here last., when the house was on the market for• only three
months., you had someone who was very interested in it for a bed
and breakfast - and that was denied when you came in for the bed
and breakfast facility - we turned you down. What happened to
that interested party, did they want to come back and
MS . JACKSON: They bought something else. That was two years ago .
MS . BAGNARDI : So they dropped out completely?
MS . JACKSON: They are definitely not now a possibility, if that
is what you mean.
MS . BAGNARDI : No, I know that, I know what they own at this
point but could that have - how can I say this - would that have
been a possibility if you - had you come to terms when you came
here for the variance - teems of contract, when you came here?
MS . JACKSON: With them?
MS . BAGNARDI : Yes . And it was contingent on obtaining the
variance, was that right?
MS . JACKSON: In a general sort of way, yes .
MS . BAGNARDI : And then when we turned you down they completely
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 48
lost interest?
MS . JACKSON: Well one of their problems was that time and money
became a problem for them - having to wait, things got more
difficult for them financially and they were no longer able to
wait out - they didn' t have any money left after they waited out
the . .
MS . BAGNARDI : Period of time? Okay .
MR. BOOTH: You said it had a history of use as a multiple
dwelling? At what point was that?
MS . JACKSON: When we bought it it was being used as a great huge
rooming house., as near- as I could tell . Everything that wasn' t a
bathroom or a kitchen was lived in by two or three people -
somebody - you know, singles and doubles and there were a lot of
people living there .
MS . BAGNARDI : There are seven people living there now, you and
the children?
MS . JACKSON: Yes and the people in the apartment house .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Any other- questions? Thank you. Is there
anyone else who wishes to speak in support of this application?
Yes please come forward .
MS . DATZ: My name is Joanna Datz and I work with Century 21,
I ' ve been the broker for two years that has represented Judith
Jackson. I would just like to reiterate for the case of hardship
that we have really given every effort to marketing this house as
a single family and that in terms of putting any expense in, not
only our agency., but Judy has kind of sat here modestly - she put
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 49
in that whole apartment, which she now rents out for $395 . 00 last
summer which was a total renovation and expense in an extra kit-
chen and remodelling that apartment . She has also insulated the
entire house in terms of improvement from its prior assessment
and, unfortunately housing - although is supposed to be assessed
at market value - are not always - and that we have over time
made many different kinds of efforts, as she said, in marketing
it as a house with extra space, a house with less space, a house
with an 'apartment., a house without an apartment, a large family
house, a family house with an apartment - just over time have
made several efforts to market it different ways and have not
been successful and it has been on multiple listing for two years
now, going back to April 1982 .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Mould you comment on the $112, 000 . asking price
for 6, 000 feet?
MS . DATZ. That is highly unusual - that is very low for that
amount of square footage. However pure amount of square footage
doesn't even relate to the price - it would be a bargain at that
price if someone could use it for a multiple imaginable uses
-however-, people just have a single family, even with an apart-
ment consider first the extra amount of room that they have no
use for and second, the utility bills right away . People just
usually walk in and are overwhelmed and in fact after the last
Board meeting at which Judy was turned down, we invited Tom Hoard
and the area building inspector to come and see the building -
walk through it completely so that they would know what was
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 58
there, I don't knew if anyone else from the Board has been
through the house but it is probably unimaginable in size - it is
extremely overwhelming for any single family prospect so the
price is almost irrelevant . We could put a much lesser price on
it and someone would still look at the utility bills and the
extra amount of space - no single family has wanted to deal with
it .
MR. TOMLAN: What do you think the borderline would be - how far
down would you have to go?
MS . UATZ: I think the more down you got, the less in price you
got., the less favorable someone would be of handling the utility
bills, the taxes, the maintenance on the house, so I think you
would need an over S100, 000. buyer to handle the taxes, the util-
ities - someone who is qualified in that range to keep up the
maintenance in that type of house, even if you had reduced the
price you have a lesser qualified buyer to manage that size
property .
MR. BOOTH: In terms of selling or converting it to units, do you
have any sense of how many units would be the minimum that would
make it an attractive (unintelligible)
MS . UATZ : I think it would work as five or six - the only reason
we had even contemplated five was that there would be no need in
terms of the stair cases and entrances for building an outside
staircase to the third floor - it could be arranged - there is an
inside staircase to the third floor and that would support five
units. However, that would put some rooms to waste in terms of
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 51
bedrooms and in terms of a buyer ' s point of view, making it more
attractive. Six apartments would support ,just about a break even
investment with an estimated range of renovations that would be
required to make it into apartments . And that is ,just about
break even with putting in a substantial amount of cash to do the
renovation .
MR. BOOTH: Who made those estimates, did your agency make those
estimates?
MS . UATZ : Our agency worked on that, Judy and I worked on
potential plans for what - visions of what - Judy consulted with
Tom Hoard in terms of possible types of divisions of the building
-the assessments in terms of what would make it break even were
based on conservative rental amounts for each apartment .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Further questions? Thank you. Is there anyone
else who wishes to speak in support of this application? (no ones
Is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to this
application? Don't be shy - someone has to be first .
MR. HARTMAN.' My name is George Hartman, I live at 404 Elm Street
right across the road and we've got one West Village there, we
don't need anymore. You know that, don't you Charlie?
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in
opposition to this application?
MR. WILCOX: I won't be quite as to the point as George is . My
name is Jerry Wilcox, I live at 414 Elm Street, just across the
street - I ' ve lived there ten years and during the previous round
of requests for- the BZA, I testified in favor of having this be-
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 52
ing a bed and breakfast . My concern at that time was that we
maintain a good neighbor, because the Jacksons have been good
neighbors and I warted to have somebody who would live in the
building . I am concerned about this now because I did live there
for one year when, as Judy aptly described it, every available
room in the building was occupied by somebody not related to any-
body else and it was really hell on the neighborhood. I know
that ' s not what she is describing now but we do get enough noise
from West Village - the noise pollution, especially in the sum-
mertime - with what we have and I am concerned about what might
happen if we turn this into six units . I 'm sympathetic with
Judy's situation because I don't want to have her stuck with a
house that she can't use and yet I 'm also not planning to leave I
am going to be there and I can predict what is going to happen
when other people come in - whether or not they will care for the
property, if it is an absentee landlord and I think that ' s pretty
much what we are talking about . So that is why I finally came
down reluctantly on the side of opposing this .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Any questions? Thank you. Anyone else who
wishes to speak in opposition to this application?
MS . BERGSTEN: I ' m Helen Ber-gsten and I live directly across the
street . I would go along with marry of the things that Jerry has
enumerated. We did go through absentee landlords and it was
dreadful . We do have noise and West Village has depreciated our
life so I would be in the same situation► as Judy if this goes
through .
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2., 1984 PAGE 53
MR. BOOTH: How large is your house?
MS . BERGSTEN: We have an acre and six tenths across the street .
MR. BOOTH: How big is the house?
MS . BERGSTEN: Nine rooms .
MR. BOOTH: Nine rooms?
MS . BERGSTEN: Yes .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Any other questions? Thank you very much.
MS . BERGSTEN: I am Carol Ann Bergsten - this case I am very in-
terested in. That was my mother . I reside at 408 Elm Street,
Ithaca., New York and Mrs . Jackson' s property is exactly opposite .
Mr . Romanowski, our• councilman, pointed out last Thursday night
that the land attached to Mrs . Jackson' s property could be ex-
panded whereby there would be forty-two occupancies and not
six . If she were to have the building taken down or whoever
bought it - expand it onto the land which she also owns, there
would be forty-two occupants, not six . And my father• helped
build that house in which Mrs. Jackson now lives and I went to
school with all the Schickel children and that house was built
for a big family and they had a big family and we don' t have them
anymore. But that is no reason to convert a house into whatever .
Mr . Romanowski said forty-two or- tear• the whole thing down and
put a gas station in there, put a parking lot there. I like the
house that I see across the street - I don't think it is appro-
priate or fitting with our neighborhood because the first day
that Mrs . Jackson moved into her house I walked across the street
and welcomed her . She was not there, her- husband - and was as-
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 54
sured that it would be a one-family house. It never has been and
I don' t see that it ever will .
MR. BOOTH: What has it been?
MS . BERGSTEN: It has been as she has described it . We knew the
Schickels, I grew up with them. It was absentee landlord . Louie
and Kentucky had no idea of who was living there.
MR. BOOTH: What has it been the last nine years?
MS . BERGSTEN: Nine years? Anything you want . When you think of
three families, you think: of perhaps four or five cars, not nine .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Any further• questions? Thank you very much.
Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in opposition to this
application?
MS . HARTMAN: I ' m Virginia Hartman, Mr . Hartman is my husband.
Our house is about nine rooms and we have apartment upstairs
which we don't rent because of• the noise problem. In the summer
when the windows are open, which they have to be, it is so noisy
that you can't even sleep in the upstairs . We just go sleep in
the back, downstairs and so we just didn't want more cars going
in and out because they sound like they are coming right in and
out of your own driveway. It must be something to do with the
way the lay of the land there. I realize that she has a problem
of what to do with that house. We hate to have it back the way
it was with so many cars going in and out . It is like a commune
- the whole circular• driveway was full of cars - in and out all
hours . I guess that is all I have to say.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER : Thank you .
RZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 55
MR. SCHLATHER: I ' m Raymond Schlather, live at 201 Sunrise Road,
West Hill resident, also First Ward Alder•per-son. This is diff-
icult because Judy Jackson has always been a good neighbor and a
good resident and well liked on West Hill . But the bottom line
is, from the neighborhood standpoint, to permit six apartments in
that building is going to breach very seriously the zoning con-
tract that these neighbors have with the City and I say this
quite seriously because in that neighborhood now - other than
West Village - there is only one other home that has an apart-
ment, in other words it is all single-family residences with one
home that has art apartment, down the road on Elm Street . And
there are some large homes on that street - the Clynes' home is
quite a large home and that is just down the road - it is one of
the features of that neighborhood. No question about it, none of
them is as large as this building, as this house. This is a wood
structure house by the way - it is not a brick building - it is a
wood structure home - it is a frame home. But the bottom line is
that it is a single-family neighborhood and to permit six resi-
dential units in that neighborhood is going to totally disrupt
this single-family flavor that is there. The other point to keep
in mind I think: is very important - is that there is not a pur-
chase offer on this property at this time - it is not as if you
are coming here with some proposal that you can mull over and
sift through and kind of kick around - but instead what is being
asked here is for a check for any type of a landlord to come in
and put six apartments in there - be it an absentee landlord
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 56
-which would be the worst case scenario - or perhaps as one sug-
gestion was made, it might be someone coming in - an owner-
occupied primary residence with a couple of spin-off apartments,
but it is a lot easier for the neighborhood to react if we are
talking about a particular plan - but we don't have a plan here,
to some extent I question whether or riot - by the granting of
this variance you will in effect be alleviating any economic
hardship because, first of all there is a claim of economic hard-
ship but there is no demonstration here that the grant of a vari-
ance would somehow alleviate that because there is no buyer in
hand at any price and under any circumstances . I would submit
that the better- course would be as was done with the bed and
breakfast and that was that an offer- was made, or at least there
was noise of a contract being entered into - that they► was pre-
sented to the neighborhood, the neighborhood reacted, it was a
split neighborhood - there were some people in favor of the bed
and breakfast and some opposed - that the lines of opposition
were more on the issue of commercial vs non-commercial as opposed
to the density factor and the vote was taken. They didn' t have
the votes. The bottom line here - and I think it would be a lot
easier from the neighbors standpoint, if they could get a pro-
posal made and then to be able to come in and react . It may be
that somebody may come in and suggest three condominiums instead
of a six unit apartment - that might be acceptable to the neigh-
bors, assuming certain conditions could be attached that would
make it palatable to the neighborhood. But to simply come in
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 57
here and write a check for six units, I think is a big mistake.
I guess the other point to keep in mind and it has already been
brought up but I think it deserves emphasis is that this is - to
some extent - a self-inflicted hardship . The building was there,
it was coned residential when it was purchased, West Village was
there when it was purchased and it was bought as a single-family
residence with the right to put in a spin-off apartment and the -
in other words, the Jacksons moved in with eyes open, they under-
stood what they were getting into and I don' t think it was fair
to the neighbors, as one neighbor has indicated here tonight -
she may leave and - but they have to stay., the neighborhood stays
and they have to bear the brunt of the decision that is made here
this evening. I think there may be other possible solutions that
haven't been explored here, such as it may be that sub-division
of the parcel may be feasible which would permit some economic
recovery to the (unintelligible) here. I don't know whether Cen-
tury has pursued these options or not but that is something that
could be explored. I guess in closing the point I want to make
here is that zoning truly is a contract between a neighborhood
and its community and to the extent that that contract is en-
forced, then to that extent people can rely upon it - people buy
and sell - people make improvements to their property, it is
something - there should be a presumption there that that is
something that is not going to be breached. The granting of a
variance in the face of neighborhood opposition is a breach of
their contract - it is saying to the neighbors, look you may have
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 58
that contract but we are not going to enforce it in your situa-
tion and I think that under the circumstances of this case, there
is not a sufficient basis to breach that contract . I would opt
on the side of the neighbors and I would urge you to deny it and
perhaps with the message being sent out - bring us a concrete
proposal and maybe we can react to it - maybe we can work with
something along these lines .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: One thing - as an alderman - you repeated
something that we hear every month about absentee landlords and
I ' d like to point out to you that there is nothing in the Zoning
Ordinance or any other Municipal Ordinance, that I am aware of,
that dictates who shall or shall not own property and whether
they are obliged to live in - including single family dwellings
or R-2, fully in compliance or anything else - although most of
the neighbors know exactly what they are talking about when they
have had a bad experience with a property with an absentee
landlord -there is nothing that the Municipality has in place
that would protect anyone in the City against that possibility.
MR. SCHLATHER: From a legal sense or a constitutional sense, it
would be pretty difficult for any governmental entity to say - in
other- words to control ownership of property in that fashion - to
have special rules for absentee landlords as opposed to
owner-occupied landlords - the point is well made and I think
that the problem is that the absenteeism somehow becomes a
function of size. The larger the project, the more likely it is
that the owner- is an absentee owner- and that it is a commercial
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 59
venture.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to
speak in opposition to this?
MS . DATZ: I would like to respond .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Yes . Come up here .
MS . DATZ : I would like to respond as the marketing anent to two
points that Ray Schlather made. One is the sub-division of a lot
which possibly could be a consideration but you can't sub-divide
the house. You can take an extra lot off and sell but then who
will buy that tremendous house on a smaller lot even than 2 .63
acres where you will have a tremendous house and a very small
lot? So it is not as it that hasn't been under consideration.
Secondly talking about well let ' s come to the Board with a pro-
posal or a buyer• who has a proposal and consider• that specific
proposal - it is very difficult to market something that isn' t
-the buyer• asks and this question has been repeated over and over
from buyers - what is it zoned f•or? And we tell them what the
zoning is currently. Timing is an extremely important factor in
a sale of a home. The timing was partially the reason that Judy
lost her• last buyer . We had to wait for months for the hearings
the Planning Board and the Zoning Board - and by that time they
were on to other things and had lost part of what they had ac-
crued. Very often an investment buyer - to an investment buyer
-timing is extremely important - whether it be before taxes or
within a certain tax year• or• money that he has to transfer from
one investment to another . Now it may still be an owner-occupied
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 60
unit in the end but if it is going to be a multiple unit it will
likely be an investor- and to an investor, timing is very impor-
tant and we have to say to this person that it is currently resi-
dential - you could possibly do all this r•econstr-uction and come
before the Zoning Board and find out if you could make it into a
multi-family, in which case it becomes not as attractive right
away .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Thank you .
MR. BOOTH: I have two questions. One is that we have heard
testimony that the asking price for this house is about thirty
percent above it assessed valuation. Is that unusual, or is that
usual?
MS . DATZ : You will find if you look at the assessment rolls -al-
though they ar-e supposed to be in accordance with current market
value - they ar•e hardly ever- that . The range usually varies in
accordance with how long the property has been owned. If it was
sold to a buyer two years ago, it is likely the assessment is
more cur•r•ent because there are changes after- the sale, not neces-
sar•ily to what the people paid but it is up considerably .
MR. BOOTH: When was this assessment made?
MS . DATZ : I am not sure, but Judy has owned it for- nine years
-what tends to happen., to my knowledge, or the way I have viewed
it, is when a person owns a house for- a long time it gets up in
little, little increments.. but not in accordance with the way the
market values ar-e rising - an appreciation - real appreciation
-market appreciation. So, since they have owned it for nine
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 61
years, the assessment might tend to go up by little bits but not
as if it were resold within the last two or three years and that
market price would indicate a change of assessment .
MR. BOOTH: Second question - as a real estate agent, do you
agree with the general characterization of the rest of the
neighborhood in terms of traffic?
MS . GAT2: Elm Street is a more main thoroughfare on West Hill
-I 'm also a West Hill resident, I live on Hector Street which I
consider a busy thoroughfare - Elm Street is not - that portion
of Elm Street is not nearly as busy as Hector Street but it is
also a main thoroughfare - it is not what Warren Place or Richard
Place or the little residential neighborhoods - however, the peo-
ple that are speaking live across the street and that does main-
tain a fairly residential character - along that side of the
street . Judy lives across the street, back to back with West
Village and the noise that they talk about is very apparent but
she shares that by the nature of the fact that they are in her
back yard - she can't do anything about that . And I personally
-talking about noise - we are talking about the noise of six more
units compared to however many hundreds there are in West Village
I don't think it is going to increase the noise factor
noticably .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Thank you. I 've allowed her to speak again - is
there anyone in opposition that feels any need to respond?
Alright thank you all .
MS . JACKSON: May I say something?
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 62
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Yes briefly. Come forward. I ' d like to give
everyone a fair hearing - I ' d also like to get on with the
subject .
MS . JACKSON: This is just in response to several things that I
have heard people say. What somebody said about forty units -
she was totally incorrect . In fact Mr . VanCort who in effect
recommended for - and I know he is not a voting member -recom-
mended for this plan, pointed out that I have enough land to sup-
port forty units - he was merely pointing out the amount of land
available there - he wasn't saying that anybody had the right to
do that . And in fact, the house has no need to change dramati-
cally on the outside even at all by doing what I am proposing .
It can't go back to the rooming house that we salvaged it from
nine years ago - I don't even think it is possible by zoning laws
- but certainly not by what I am asking (unintelligible) . My
variance - the thing I am asking for is as close to what it is
now as about anything you can get . I also would like to suggest
too that being an absentee landlord is not a guarantee fifty-
fifty that the person is going to be careless. I own a building
downtown and I don' t treat it that way - it looks nice - there
are plenty of people that treat property well and I would also
suggest that if we were to spend a lot of money on it - it would
be foolish to let something like my property turn into a small
slum or a - and I think if someone needs to put money into an al-
ready expensive property suggest that it would be taken care of .
And I also want to suggest to be a tenant doesn' t mean you can' t
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 63
be a desirable, decent neighbor- . It doesn' t mean you are loud -
it doesn't mean you ar-e disrespectful - it doesn't mean that you
don' t care about where you live .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to
be heard?
MR. SCHLATHER: Two points. One is that West Village certainly
is there but West Village is - the nearest building is probably I
would wager- - is almost one hundred yards from Elm Street - in
other• words it is quite a distance compared to this home' s proxi-
mity to the neighbors who have spoken earlier . Second point is
that indeed this land is surrounded by vacant parcels and one
real concern is that if a variance of this magnitude is granted
for this particular pr•oper•ty, there will be pressure from the
owners of the other" vacant parcels to come in and say, hey we
can't build a single-family dwelling on these properties because
we ar•e next to a six-unit apartment and West Village, therefore
we want to put in an apartment on these parcels - so all of a
sudden we ar-e going to end up with the south side of Elm Street,
north of West Village's entrance is going to be apartment units
and the north side is going to be very disgruntled and unhappy
single family dwellers who may., indeed, leave. In other words,
there is a real erosion of the neighborhood and that is the best
way to start it to legitimize multiple dwelling .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Ready for the question?
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 64
The Board considered the request of Judith Jackson for a use
variance to permit the conversion of the existing house at 415
Elm Street to up to six apartments . A comment was expressed by
one Board member to the effect that in the three months that he
has sat on the Board, this case was the most difficult; that
there are strong reasons on both sides of this case. The
decision of the Board was as follows :
MR. BOOTH: I move that the Board deny the use variance
requested in appeal number 1557 .
MR. TOMLAN: I second the motion.
FINDINGS OF FACT :
17 There is an existing valid use of the property, it obviously
has difficulties attached to it but it is an existing
feasible use .
2) Substantial testimony that the proposed variance would alter
the character of the neighborhood to a substantial degree.
3) This is somewhat of a chicken and egg problem but it is
legitimate to read or hear this record to suggest that there
are some opportunities to use this property that have not
been explored which therefore defeat the granting of this
variance. Having said all of that, I think this is a very
close question .
A statement was made in opposition to the motion. There is a
very clear showing of a uniqueness of this specific property in
its total size, its proximity to West Village and the size of the
site. It has not been specifically stated here but the price
HZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 65
bracket is such that a person with that much cash would shop -not
just for• a different size and different price, but also would
shop for- a protected area - protected against that major multiple
dwelling that constitutes a whole area of West Village. If this
motion is successful, the Hoard might be pr-epar-ed to hear a simi-
lar application that might result in a conditional granting .
Obviously this Hoard has no basis for a conditional granting of a
variance now - because the si•x. apartment proposal is rather am-
biguous, and because there ar•e other- considerations, such as the
exterior- alterations for- an exterior- stairway yet to be designed
which ar•e of concern both to this Hoard and to the neighborhood.
The Hoard cannot grant a variance for a proposal that is in such
broad form as this application is in, but might consider- a more
specific and detailed proposal .
VOTE : 5 YES; 1 NO USE VARIANCE REQUEST DENIED
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 66
SECRETARY HOARD: The next case is appeal number 1558 for• 119
THIRD STREET which has been held over by the Planning and
Development Board. The next case then is appeal number 1559 for
323-29 COLLEGE AVENUE :
Appeal of David and Seymour• Turk for• an area var-
iance for a deficient rear yard under Section
30 . 25, Column 14 of the Zoning Ordinance, to per-
mit the addition of two floors of four apartments
on each floor (eight apartment total) to the ex-
isting one-story merchantile building at 323-29
College Avenue (Turk ' s Army and Navy Store and
Collegetown Convenience Store) . The property is
located in a B-2b (business) use district where
the existing and proposed uses are permitted;
however, under Sections 30 . 49 and 30. 57 of the
Zoning Ordinance the appellants must obtain an
area variance for the deficient rearyard setback
before a building permit or• a certificate of oc-
cupancy can be issued for the addition to the
non-conforming structure. The existing building
was constructed under area variances ( 1258 and
1266) issued in 1979 .
After discussion concerning this matter between David and Seymour
Turk and Board members., the following motion was made :
MR. TOMLAN: I move that the Board defer action on this case
and refer it back to the Planning and Development
Board for a recommendation.
MS . FARRELL : I second the motion .
VOTE : 6 YES; 0 NO Motion carried
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 67
SECRETARY HOARD: The last appeal is appeal number 1560, 115
UTICA STREET :
Appeal of Adrian H. Kitai for an area variance
for a deficient side yard under Section 30 . 25,
Column 12 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the
construction of a second floor addition over a
one-story portion of the existing single-family
dwelling at 115 Utica Street . The property is
located in an R-2b ( residential one-and
two-family dwelling) use district in which the
proposed use is permitted; however Sections 30 . 49
and 30 . 57 of the Zoning Ordinance require that
the appellant obtain an area variance for the
deficient side yard setback before a building
permit or a certificate of occupancy can be
issued for the proposed addition.
MR. KITAI : My name is Adrian Kitai . I bought the property last
August and my intention was to improve the property, make it more
in keeping with other properties in the neighborhood. Do you
have copies of the plans? The reason that the plans are as I
have sketched them is that if you look at the downstairs in the
present structure, the living room is almost like a corridor - it
is not very big - it doesn't allow much living space. It is ad-
jacent to a bedroom and is not desirable for a family situation.
The kitchen has to be passed through to get to the bathroom from
any of the three bedrooms which are in the house. The rear of
the house also has a utility room which does not permit any com-
munication with the back yard which is very unpleasant because
there is a large back yard. There is no window or anything else
to the back. yard. That also made it less appealing as a single
family dwelling . The renovations are designed to make a kitchen
with a view to the back yard, a larger living-dining room which
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 68
would eliminate one bedroom downstairs and then in the addition
upstairs of two additional bedrooms and an additional bathroom to
maintain the accommodation in the house. The downstairs bedroom
would be a study or a bedroom in the case of a single-family
dwelling . You are not allowed more than three unrelated indi-
viduals in a rental situation. That situation does not change.
The reason that I need the variance is because the house is three
foot ten inches over too far on the north boundary. Three foot
ten inches further over- than it should be. I have made a picture
here showing the houses in the neighborhood, showing that the lot
size of my house is not significantly smaller or- larger than ad-
jacent lots and I am showing that the house itself is signifi-
cantly smaller than any of the houses in the neighborhood. I
believe you have a copy of a letter- which was sent by a neighbor,
is that correct? I would just like to go through some of his
objections to the plan. First., he states that there is room for
one car - well there is presently room for two cars. This was
brought out at the Planning meeting. It was their thought that
you are allowed to have two cars, one behind the other on the
south side of the house which has the twelve foot . . .
MR. BOOTH: That exists now?
MR. KITAI : It exists now.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Is that - the space exists but that hadn' t been
developed into parking had it?
MR. KITAI : Yes it has - you have the drawing there - a gravel
driveway .
8ZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 69
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Alright . I must say that I didn't notice that .
MS . COOKINGHAM: I didn' t either .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Some of your tenants apparently are in the
habit of parking between the sidewalk and curb .
MR . KITAI : That is right .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: They don' t quite get all the way in .
MR. KITAI : There is a problem now in that one of the tenants who
broke his lease has left a car in the front yard of this house.
None of us can move the car .
MR. TOMLAN: It can' t be towed?
MR. KITAI : I can tow it but have not done so. The leases of all
the tenants end May the lath and I thought well I won' t do
anything with it . I can do something immediately - I can get
that car- out of there immediately .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I guess I must have assumed that the reason for
that parking was that there was but one space beyond the
sidewalk .
MR. KITAI : No there is sufficient space - there is twelve feet
there .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Alright . Thank you .
MR. KITAI : And in terms of the house remaining a single family
dwelling, I am not asking for any kind of a duplex. Duplexes are
allowed in that neighborhood but that is not my intention. It
says in statement number- three that the new elevation is in di-
rect opposition - elevation to all other houses . I don' t really
understand that but some of the pictures that I have passed
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 70
around does show that at least the adjacent - the next door house
is very similar in appearance to the style of this house. The
fourth statement that he makes is that I could put seven people
in the house but I am only allowed three unrelated people -
that ' s not a variance - I am not applying for a variance of that
nature. Finally there was some concern by some of the neighbors
may not have received my statements - my appeal and I know they
have because the postman gave them a card which says they owe
seventeen cents from the post office. I also verified with the
two neighbors on each side of the house did receive notification
and I have signed statements from them showing that they did in
fact receive the notice within at least five days before the ini-
tial Planning meeting .
SECRETARY HOARD: Have you refunded the seventeen cents?
MR. KITAI : I have offered to., so far nobody has accepted it .
MR. BOOTH: The addition will go on the north side of the house
as you look at it?
MR. KITAI : The addition is on the upstairs of the single story
portion of the house which is east of the (unintelligible) it ' s
not on the side of the house, it is above the present ground
floor . It does not extend any further than the present house on
any side .
MR. BOOTH: I know, I looked at the house though.
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: It is only one story behind that
(unintelligible)
MR. BOOTH: So it is only one, I see. So the existing
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 71
non-conformities will not be enlarged?
MR. KITAI : I have a picture of the side of the house - you can
see the single floor area goes behind the single upstairs rooms .
There is also at least six feet between the house and the house
on the north side .
MR. TOMLAN: As a matter- of curiosity have you (unintelligible)
the walls of the house (unintelligible) at any point
(unintelligible) house construction?
MR. KITAI : It ' s a frame house .
MR. TOMLAN: It ' s a frame house but you are not (unintelligible)
construction?
MR. KITAI : It has a concrete (unintelligible) concrete portion
of the floor - the concrete footing part of the floor has a crawl
space so the house needs engineering work done on it before I can
proceed .
MR . TOMLAN: And the walls are frame now?
MR. KITAI : It ' s an old two by four• and the house has been built
in several stages .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: And you propose to add one stage?
MR. KITAI : That is correct, hopefully something that will make
it more appealing to single family . . . .
MS . COOKINGHAM: Although you wouldn't be required to rent to
what I consider- to be a single family, which is not three
unrelated adults, is the purpose of doing this to try to attract
that kind of a tenant?
MR. KITAI : That is correct . I wish to sell the house when the
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 72
renovations are complete., if possible, to a family as opposed to
a landlord .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: With that car out front I can understand that .
MR. KITAI : I have had nothing but trouble - the house was unfit
for habitation when I acquired it and I certainly have made
improvements since then .
MR. BOOTH: When did you acquire it?
MR. KITAI : In August last year .
MS . FARRELL : Have you talked with a contractor or- someone about
doing this kind of . . . .
MR. KITAI : I am a contractor, I would be doing the work .
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Further questions? Well, for one thing, I
don' t have to ask for comments, no one is here.
BZA MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984 PAGE 73
The Board considered the appeal of Adrian H. Kitai for an area
variance for a deficient side yard under Section 30. 25, Column 12
of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the construction of a second
floor addition over a one-story portion of the existing
single-family dwelling at 115 Utica Street . The decision of the
Board was as follows :
MR. BOOTH: I move that the Board grant the area
variance requested in appeal number 1560 .
MS . FARRELL : I second the motion.
FINDINGS OF FACT :
1) The existing building location would make it extremely
difficult to comply with the existing area deficiency .
2) The proposed addition will not increase any of the existing
deficiencies .
3) The proposed renovations will improve the character of the
house .
4) The proposal is consistent with the character of the
neighborhood in which this house is located.
VOTE : 6 YES; 0 NO GRANTED
74
I , BARBARA RUANE, DO CERTIFY THAT I took the minutes of the Board of
Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York, in the matters of Appeals
numbered 4-1-84, 1553, 1555, 1556, 1557, and 1560 on April 2, 1984
in the Common Council Chambers , City of Ithaca, 108 East Green Street,
Ithaca, New -York, that I have transcribed same, and the foregoing is a
true copy of the transcript of the minutes of the meeting and the action
taken of the Board of Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York on the
above date, and the whole thereof to the best of my ability.
Barbara C. Ruane
Recording Secretary
Sworn to before me this
.Z` a_q, day, of ,1984
Notary Public
JEAN J. HANKINSON
NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE OF NEW YORK
No. 55-1660800
QUALIFIED IN TOM.PKINS COUNM,-
mY CO`:i;",!SSICN EXPIRES MARCH 30,19-.:..-X