HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1982-12-06 II
I
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS j
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK I
I
DECEMBER 65, 1982
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Page
APPEAL NO. 12-1-82 Byrne Dairy, Inc . 1
213 North Meadow Street
APPEAL NO. 12-1-82 Executive Session 9
APPEAL NO. 1472 David L. Krinich $ Susan Blumenthal 10
117 Pearsall Place
APPEAL N0, 1472 Executive Session 12
CERTIFICATION OF RECORDING SECRETARY 13
I
i
i
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK
DECEMBER 6 , 1982 `
I
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: I 'd like to call this hearing to order. This is
a formal hearing of the Board of Zoning Appeals meeting to hear
two cases . The first thing I would like to do is introduce the
members of the Board: Bette Bagnardi
Donna Ward
Michael Tomlan
Peggy Haine
Toni Stevenson
Charles Weaver, Chairman
Thomas D. Hoard, Secretary to the
Board, Building Commissioner &
Zoning Officer
Barbara Ruane, Recording Secretary
The conduct of this hearing requires testimony in support of the
appeal . However the rules of evidence are not formally adhered to
but the Board will be required to make its determinations upon
sufficient legal evidence. We request each person who wishes to b
heard to come forward and speak into the microphone. This will be
nec(essary for any remarks at all to be recorded by the tape recor-
der that is an assist to our recording secretary. The cases will
be heard in the order they are listed on the formal notice . The
procedure will be first to hear all testimony in the cases follow-
ing which the Board will go into executive session. After the com-
I
pletion of the executive session we will come back into public
session and those who wish to wait and hear the results of our
deliberations may do so , Those who do not wait can find out by
telephone or dropping into the office of the Building Commissioner
during office hours tomorrow. We will have the first case please.
SECRETARY HOARD: Th-e first case Mr. Chairman was appeal number 1464
which was the appeal of, Nancy Scoones for a use variance on 109
Elston place. That has been withdrawn. The next case then is
�II
appeal number 12-1-82: Appeal of Byrne Dairy, Inc. for a variancel
from Section 34. 5 of the Sign Ordinance to
permit the erection of a free-standing sig
of sixty (60) square feet at 213 North
Meadow Street (Byrne Dairy) , in a B-2a
(business) use district. Section 34 . 5 of
the Sign Ordinance limits such signs to a
maximum of fifty (50) square feet in the
i B-2a zone .
2 -
ij i
i
,SMR. HINES: Mr. Chairman, my name is Bob Hines , I represent the
Byrne Dairy Company. The purpose of this application is to obtain !
I i
, permission to erect a sixty foot sign of which I have a photo and a�
,blueprint. I 'd like to submit both of those if I might. This
I
!Board, I am sure., is thoroughly familiar with the Byrne Dairy and
I
1where we are located on Meadow Street, having gone through an ex-
tensive application before this Board about a year and one-half
i
ago. However I would like to submit two photographs which amplify
I1whatever words I could speak concerning its present appearance and
!location. For those of you familiar with the city, there is no
i
trouble identifying which direction they are taken from. One is
I�looking north from Seneca Street and the other is Joe 's Restaurant
,
!looking across the street at the store in its present location, j
'The proposal is to locate this sign within the lawful setbacks
f( ,
, approximately as shown on the site plan which was part of the j
original survey submitted in connection with the construction plans
�of this building, The Byrne Dairy operates a convenience food out
flet on North Meadow Street and by reason of its setback on Meadow
I
Street, as you can see from the photograph when you've had a chance
'lto look at it, the store is obscure to traffic driving northerly on
C
1readow Street. it also is obscure to traffic driving southerly on
eadow Street although we have no photograph of that view, It is
I
!necessary to have an adequate sign and I recognize under the Sign
�rdinance we are permitted to have a sign of fifty feet so the
!question is why, are we here tonight asking for a sixty square foot
i
'sign? In additionto the beTiefits that will deprive both the publi�
1la.nd the owner from having a larger sign, that is a standard logo
�w I
Isign produced for Byrne Dairy and which they have on all of their
i
,stores throughout Central New York and Mr. Byrne will tell you very
I
,briefly approximately how many stores this is on and how it tends t8
j
identify and characterize the Byrne location. The additional ten
Ifeet I contend is de minimis and, under the circumstances of this
1particular street and the amount of printing and the cow logo that
��4is on it is necessary for the in order for the public to adequate
i`
Iy view the property. I 've taken the liberty of xeroxing one of j
'I
' - 3 -
i !
�i
of the photographs and within reasonable limits I 've tried to
I,! sketch what the size of the sign would look like as proposed on
Iithat, in red. Now the criteria by which the city is required to
;fact in this application is given in the Sign Ordinance and I am
!' sure I don't have to set it forth to you but I would like to draw
i
your attention to its wording. In granting a variance for an ex-
1
�jception you are to take into consideration the purpose for which
�ithe sign is erected and intended. This is erected and intended to
i
'; draw attention to the location of the store which is obscured from
i
] traffic and we put it in that particular location as part of the
' agreement made when we applied for the permit to build a building. !
We wanted adequate parking for on-off access that resulted in the f
11building being set substantially beyond the line of sight . It ' s f
ciintended to be seen and for the purpose of being seen by motorists ]
I
' travelling on Meadow Street whatever the speed limit is there -
I am sure they, keep within it, of course, but they travel quite
ifast up and down that street. As you know, from our evidence be-
�Ifore the BZA last , two years - whenever it was - a year and one-
1half ago - that is the most heavily travvelled block in the county !
it
- more traffic passes that particular point over a twenty-four hour
than an other block in the county _ that includes the Tri�period �' �' p
' hammer area. So we have - to obtain the attention of the motorist ]
'who is seeking the Byrnes store and get in there without interfer- i
ring or impeding wi,th. traff .c or causing an accident. So we think ;
! there is a legitimate purpose to be served by this sign and we think
j'th.e extra ten feet is necessary and not obtrusive in any way. The ;
I
j�next point is that the number of letters on the proposed sign - I
notice that the Ordinance says that a sign with only a few letters
s i
'need not be as large or so large as one with many letters . Well ,
lof course, most of this sign is consumed with the cow logo and the
i
;;word Byrne Dairy - the words Byrne on that - I think you will find
by looking at the photos, are really, no larger than the DOT sign
'!pointing out Cornell University:. So we have some balance there and
;!we 've obviously provided the minimum number of letters and I think '
,the logo itself is not obtrusive . The next thing, other signs in
I I
I�
i
4 -
ii
the vicinity there - obviously on Meadow Street - in that two or
!three block area - everybody has a sign - everybody has a large
I
#sign. The gas station signs generally run as wide as the Byrnes
jsign or wider, and the post upon which they prop them extend as
Ilhigh or higher than the Byrnes sign - the only difference is the j
Byrnes sign has more surface area. I notice in connection with
research done on other matters and in just walking up and down the
street, the setback. requirements are legion on that street . We
are trying to comply with that but we do ask for a surface excep-
I
tion and I think when it comes to obtrusiveness and to the spirit
i
!of the Ordinance that the size is less bothersome than the setback.
And, as I said, there are a number of signs in that area, up and
down the street which, although they don't exceed fifty feet cer-
tainly violate the setback requirement. The next item is the
character of the neighborhood that speaks for itself. It ' s a
commercial area. There are residences one or two left on the
street, but hardly could be considered anything other than a major
commercial area. Why this area is not given the same treatment as
,Elmira Road, Z really dont know because it is almost as congested
in terms of its density of the business. And the fourth is the
fifth item is the public interest which is rather ambiguous and I.
am not sure how to address that but in am event the sign which we
ask for is a standard sign used by Byrne Dairy which is purchased
by the company from an outside manufacturer to a standard mold.
To make any other sign requires the reconstruction of the mold and
aspecial sign for this particular location at substantial expense
to Mr . Byrne . This is not Exxon or Shell or Gulf or somebody we
are dealing with but a businessman located just a few miles north
of here who does business in this as well as other areas of the
Southern Tier. I 'd like to defer, if you have no questions of me ,
to Vincent Byrne to explain to you why this particular sign is
i
something that he feels that he has to have . Thank you.
� MR, BYRNE : Good evening. NYy name ,s Vincent Byrne , I 'm with
Byrne Dairy. I guess it was just about a year and on-half ago that
�we were before this Board for a variance to put our store there .
if
i!
- 5 -
�I
ii
� I think that we have done exactly what we said we were going to do.l11
I!I think we are good neighbors in the community and at that time we
kdidn' t want to come before the Board and also ask for a sign vari-
mance. Our sign is actually made up in four pieces . We have a cow
on the top and the BYRNE on the bottom r it is lit from inside - it
(,lis not a very glowing sign - it is softly lit and so it ' s a double-i
i
';faced and it is molded or blow molded by a factory. We usually
i
i
!buy these signs in order to get a price on them - we would buy
;five signs erected at once and we also keep spare parts so that if
li
i, a rock would go through it or a stone or an ice - snow ball - we
can replace it. So that is our standard type sign it isn' t wide
i
!but it is high and we find T know that your Ordinance said that
i
;!the bigger the sign, the more writing but I think there has been I
j
(!some studies made on safety and if you are travelling twenty-five 1
Imiles an hour, you have about three seconds to read a sign, Some
i'
time when you are going along on a lonely road, close your eyes for'.
(,Ithree seconds - you' ll see how far you travel , So we try to put as
fIlittle on the sign as we possibly can - it gives the woman or the.
! husband a chance to identify where we are , It ' s easy to identify;
� , it does really promote safety which. s in the public interest be-1
i
;cause the minute the person sees the sign they can take their foot
!i
off the gas , and prepare themselves to enter our store area. You
;;are coming north on 13 , because of the additional houses we
'I
factually bought an extra house in there you are on the blind side ,
you cannot see the store and if somebody, should stomp on their
!brakes quickly actually it' s not a good safe situation, if they j
;;could see the sign from quite a ways away it would be much more
j
;safe for everyone else, We standardized the sign - as I told you -;
;lin all of our stores and it has worked out quite well for us , It ip
iinot an eye-sore , as a matter of fact a lot of kids like the sign -
I
`you know dairying is our number one industry in New York State and
'1we have a picture of a cow up there and, of course, with Cornell here
!with its dairy school, it' s nice to have somebody have a cow sign UP.
',So this is what we would like to propose you to allow us to put up
and - it ' s on one post and we think it adds to the area. If anybody
Ii
I!
i
6 -
I� I
,has any questions that I can answer I would be glad to answer them
I
for you.
`IMS . BAGNARDI: How many stores do you have in Central New York?
�iMR. BYRNE: We operate over twenty-five dairy stores . We have two
i
� in Auburn, we opened one in Horseheads, we have one in Elmira, we
i
opened one here we have one in Cortland, one in Pulaski , two in
Oswego, Fulton, Utica area, Chittenango , Oneida - we have just
I
opened a bid today on a store that we are going to build in Rome .
S. BAGNARDI : Do all of these stores that you mentioned - do they
i
all have this sign?
�R. BYRNE: Yes they all have this standard sign. Yes and if we gol
to repair them it ' s nice because we can keep the parts in stock and
they are inter-changeable and when they do break - you know, it ' s
f�rery expensive to replace them .
I!
SAS . BAGNARDI : And have these signs complied with all the . . . I
I
IR. BRYNE: No , many places - we 've had some problems - I want to
1be perfectly honest with you. The Town of DeWitt - you know -
Ilthey've gone as far as the Supreme Court on signs. We had a sign
i
mike this and they - every sign in the area had to come down and -
i
ire didn' t want to but we took our sign down we have to obey the j
�aw. Now they are taken on a case by case basis you know, who
eeds a sign and who doesn' t need a sign. We are also in a blind
i
'area there - up against a set of trees . When you come before them
oard of Appeals they send it to the County Planning Board automati+
!
dally. I don't know why they do that we haven't had a response
I
! n that but we have had a sign like that in DeWitt for probably
I�
�ight years but we have always been able to put that sign up, yes .
r
S. BAGNARDI: Other than DeWitt?
R. BYRNE: Other than DeWitt - in DeWitt we just took down in the
ast sixty days .
S, WARD: How much would a sign that would conform, cost you?
R. BRYNE: Well , you know, everything is I couldn' t tell you
hat. One of the problems is it is just like our trucks we
i
rive forty Fords , If one truck is down we could take a part off
!
From the other or send ,- we maintain an inventory of parts . Now if
I�
is
�I
i,l I
I j
7
! I
we have a different size sign here and it should get broke , now
we are going to have to have different molds to repair it and/or
repair it by hand or get a different type of sign - that is the
t problem on the sign. Actually when the sign is in the air - wheth�r
I
it is fifty or sixty feet is really not a big issue . I think that )
you have rules and then you have appeals so that some people can a4
you to make exceptions to them. And that 's a word - when we keep
these parts in stock all the time so that when they get broke - as
quickly as we can we try to replace it so that it doesn' t become a
eyesore.
MS. WARD: Byrne Dairy has been there quite awhile, right?
MR. BYRNE: Oh no, we 've only been there a year. We ,just opened a
year we opened up just a year ago now. Because it was a very
we came back twice before you on our store down there - we had to
tear three houses down and there was a lot of controversy and we
I
felt at that time that we would rather have the Board concentrate
i
on us building a store rather than getting this into it too. But
since we 've been open we have had some complaints that it is hard
I
to find and it is hard to locate , so then we thought the best thin
to do is come back again and reapply. !
MS. WARD; And do you have other signs on the building?
MR. BRYNE: Well we have two signs on the building now.
SIS. WARD: And they will stay?
MR, BYRNE: No I- think that the attorney told us that one sign will
have to come down because we are only allowed a total footage for
the whole area. That sign we 'd have to takedown. I
MS. WARD: Which one is that?
MR. BYRNE: The one on Buffalo Street n the side . The one on the
i
main street we would leave up.
i
I
CHAIRMAN WEAVER; Are there any other questions from the Board? The!
problem for the Board is whether a not whether a sign can be putt
up but whether a sign larger than allowed by the Ordinance can be
!
put up. One of the things that I think would be most helpful to I
i
the Board would be to have some idea, of what a considerable expense
�as Mr. Hines ' phrase was , I believe, and your plea for replacement
l
ii
II:
8
I! I
! it still doesn' t have a very narrow connotation as to what a con-
� I
11siderable expense is or whether you could or could not conform with
I! the law and how difficult it would be for you to . . .
I
'!MR. BYRNE: Well I would say that the original sign would probably !
Ijcost $800. 00 extra to have the sign made smaller and then over a
period of time - if the sign was up for one day and somebody threw ]
an icycle through it, then I 've got to go and have a special part
! made for the sign - that ' s the problem. It ' s like you having a
especial carburetor on your car and then if it goes fluey somebody
Ibis going to have to hand make you another one . And if this sign - i
you know - it has to be nine feet in the air because of electrical
j
I rules I mean, the size of the sign when its up - I don' t think
, you would notice the difference but you do have your rules and we
! I
11want to abide by them. But we could replace one of those panels
!! within a days time because we have them in stock. Yes there is not
question about it - I mean you are all intelligent people - we
j
could get a sign made half that size Qr three-quarters that size
1but the fact of it is - it is a standard type sign and we would
like you to take that into consideration.
�`
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: But it is your estimate then is that the initial !
i
!I cost is upwards of $800 , 00?
1 MR, BYRNE: Eight to nine hundred dollars .
11CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Thank you.
? MS. WARD: What is the cost of just the sign that you have there?
JMR. BYRNE: Wes , what is the double faced sign - not hung?
! VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE: Those signs brand new a new sign runs
!j'l about $2 ,000 .
i
r� CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Thank you.
ilus
' MR. BYRNE: Thankyou. We appreciate the courtesies extended to
lhese and we ho e to be o d citizen in p good �, s your community, Thank
�1 you very much.
I
] CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Ts there anyone else to be heard in favor of
I
] this application? Is there anyone who wishes to be heard in oppos ` -
I�
] tion to this application? We 'll have the next case . !
,I
j j
ii
I�
h
9
I
!i
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
�! COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
I( CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK
DECEMBER 6 , 1982
i�
EXECUTIVE SESSION
i
APPEAL NO. 12-1-82 :
I
(` The Board considered the appeal of Byrne Dairy, Inc . for a vari-
ance from the Sign Ordinance to permit the erection of a free-
standing sign of sixty (60) square feet at 213 North Meadow Street
4� in a B-2a use district. The decision of the Board was as follows : i
MS. HAINE: I move that the Board deny the requested sign
variance in appeal number 12-1-82 .
i
! MR. TOMLAN: I second the motion.
;
!FINDINGS OF FACT:
111) The City' s Sign Ordinance, which was passed in 1972 , required
that all non-conforming signs in the City be brought into com-
pliance by 1979 . The Board is trying to enforce that Ordinance(
,
II and the granting of this variance would be counter to that
i
effort. i
412) The appellant did not prove that it would be a hardship to
comply with the Ordinance,
I,
l13) The appellant ' s argument that he has several other similar i i
�i stores and wants to standardize his signs and should therefore
be permitted an illegally large sign ignores the rights of all
,i small businesses which are operating at a signle location and i
cannot use that argument. To grant such a variance would deny
, 1
the small business equal rights under the provisions of the
Ordinance and would seem a most inappropriate precedent to set .;
VOTE: 6 Yes ; 0 No Denied. j
{j I
j
i
I
i
I
�i
,
i
i
Ii
jj
10 -
i
I
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK
o
DECEMBER 6, 1982
( SECRETARY HOARD: The next appeal is appeal number 1472 :
Appeal of David L. Krinick and Susan Blumenthal
for an area variance under Section 30 . 25, Column
12 (minimum setback for sideyard) and Section 30. 9
(extension or enlargement of a non-conforming
structure) to permit the construction of a small
addition to the rear of the single-family house
at 117 Pearsall Place, in an R-1b (residential)
use district . An area variance is required be-
fore a building permit can be issued because the
addition will be partially within the required
sideyard setback, and because the existing struc-
ture is non-conforming because it is also par-
tially within the side yard and the addition would
be an enlargement of a non-conforming structure.
MS. BLUMENTHAL: I 'm Susan Blumenthal and I live at 117 Pearsall
Place. We are proposing a one story, 12 x 18 foot addition at the
rear of our home and this room will be a solar room - it will have
glazing on the entire south wall of about 17 or 18 feet and the
addition will be used for residential purposes to conform with the '
rest of the house and will be consistent in design with the exist- I
ing structure. We have already obtained a building permit from
the Building Department for a foundation and slab and have that
installed. I have some pictures with me and a little plan with an
area which shows our house and garage and the neighboring house
and garage . I don' t know what more I can say are there any
questions?
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Let them Look at the photos and the sketch first
please.
MS. BAGNARDI : Where will the roof line of the solar room - where
approximately will that be?
MS. BLUMENTHAL: I can show you. it will be about two or three
clapboards just above there is an addition on th-e house already
I
and I guess it doesn't show up in this photo but if you have the
i
drawing of the house - that little section right here is the
addition, so the roof line will come just one or two clapboard
above that That was a major consideration when we were plan-
ning this - was how the requirement that - you cannot see the
other addition unless you stand on the roof of our garage so
If�
� I
!nobody will see the roof lines are
y just slightly different from
I; the street.
i
it
'MS. BAGNARDI : But it will extend just a story plus three clapboards?
iMS. BLUMENTHAL: That' s right .
I
;CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Are there any questions from anyone on the Board?I
,1MR. TOMLAN: What side or sides are glazed?
jMS. BLUMENTHAL: dust the south wall is glazed. There will be no
;I
windows on the east wall and there is only a four foot portion of
jwall that will show from the west and there will be no window.
i
! That was decided mainly because we don' t want any more openings
l
through the wall than we need. We have drawings of the - if you
'would like to see them.
I) i
( CHAIRMAN WEAVER: But the east wall toward the nearest neighbor
will be just a continuation of the finish that is on the house now`l
IMS . BLUMENTHAL: That' s. right. We are taking the clapboard from
the existing wall and just reusing that. And we 've spoken with j
IIthe owner of the property next door and they have no objections .
I I
That ' s currently a rental property owned by someone down the stree�
Wand they have no objections to our doing this,
CHAIRMAN WEAVER: Any other questions from the Board? I' thank your
ils there anyone else who wishes to be heard in support of this
' appeal? Anyone who wishes to be heard in opposition to this appea�- ?
�IThe hearing will now - that ' s the second and last of our two cases
The Board will now go into executive session which is a time for
I
� a11 of you to leave temporarily and for me to get a drink of water )
; and we' ll come back and deliberate and if you wish to wait for us , l
you' ll have to wait in the corridor.
I
l
I
i
i
I
j
;I
I�
II 1
- 12 -
I�
�) BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
! COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS !
CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK
DECEMBER 6, 1982
EXECUTIVE SESSION
`i APPEAL NO. 1472 :
l! The Board considered the appeal of David L. Drinick and Susan Blum4
I i
enthal for an area variance to permit the construction of a small
i
�faddition to the rear of the single-family house at 117 Pearsall
�1Place. An area variance is required before a building permit can l e
Ilissued because the addition will be partially within the required I
sideyard setback and because the existing structure is non-conform-
ling because it is also partially within the side yard and the addi
Ition would be an enlargement of a non-conforming structure . The
I
' decision of the Board was as follows :
I
IMS. WARD: I move that the Board grant the area variance re-
quested in appeal number 1472 . j
IMS. BAGNARDI: I second the motion.
I i
FINDINGS OF FACT:
�11) This addition would have very little visual impact on the
neighborhood.
I� 2) This addition uses very little space and does not extend beyond]
I
the house . I
13) This addition. does not increase the side yard deficiency.
11VOTE: 5 Yes; 1 No Granted
'
({ i
,
(j
l
I!
i
,i
i
�f
�I
I
I
ii
�I
i!
i
13
i
ii I , BARBARA RUANE, DO CERTIFY THAT I took the minutes of the Board
,i
�( of Zoning Appeals , City of Ithaca, New York, in the matters of
' Appeals numbered 12-1-82 and 1472 on December 6 , 1982 in the j
i
( Common Council Chambers, City of Ithaca, 108 E. Green Street ,
( Ithaca, New York; that I have transcribed same , and the foregoing ;
i
is a true copy of the transcript of the minutes of the meeting j
s and the executive session of the Board of Zoning Appeals , City of
Othaca, New York on the above date, and the whole thereof to the i
(lbest of my ability.
I
Barbara C. Ruane
Recording Secretary
i
Ii
jSworn to before me th.i5
I
I i
i
I
i
day of 4t: 1982
Notary public
li
JEAN S. I4ANKINSON
NOTARY r U LIC, STI. OF NEW YORK
Q 1 - i .. VS COUNT)6
MY ^
I I
I I
i
f
I
I
I� I
i
1 I
i(
I
i
I I
I
i