HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-CC-BPW-2011-08-01COMMON COUNCIL-BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS PROCEEDINGS
CITY OF ITHACA, NEW YORK
Special Meeting 5:00 p.m. August 1, 2011
PRESENT:
Mayor Peterson
Alderpersons (8) McGonigal, Dotson, Rosario, Clairborne, McCollister, Zumoff,
Rooker, Cogan,
BPW Commissioners (4) Wykstra, Jenkins, Morache, Acharya
OTHERS PRESENT:
City Clerk – Conley Holcomb
City Attorney – Hoffman
Planning & Development Director – Cornish
Superintendent of Public Works – Gray
Deputy Fire Chief – Parsons
Assistant Superintendent of Water & Sewer - Whitney
EXCUSED:
Alderpersons Myrick, Mohlenhoff
Commissioners Warden, Goldsmith
SPECIAL ORDER OF BUSINESS:
1.1 Means Restriction on Bridges and Its Impacts on City Operations
Deputy Fire Chief Parsons reported that he attended a presentation made by Andrew
Magre after the Cornell trip to Switzerland. He noted that the emergency response
techniques used in Switzerland are not vastly different than those used in Ithaca, and he
did not see anything about the proposed nets that would pose a challenge for the Fire
Department. His remaining question is what types of injuries have people in
Switzerland experienced after their falls into the nets (based on the height of the rails
and how far beneath the bridges the nets are installed). Cornell University is still
collecting that data and will report back.
Deputy Fire Chief Parsons noted that the nets in Ithaca are proposed to be installed 20
feet below the bridges. He said that the installation of the nets in Switzerland virtually
eliminated the frequency of the jumps from bridges, so the Ithaca Fire Department
would be preparing for accidental falls. He noted that he is interested in having a net
simulator for practice and training purposes at the Fire Training Center.
Alderperson McGonigal questioned whether someone could fall into the net, climb to the
edge and then jump the rest of the way down into the gorge. Deputy Chief Parsons
responded that he did not know but he believed that the fall into the net would give
someone pause to consider if they still wanted to jump the rest of the way. He also
noted that it was possible that the person would sustain injuries from the fall into the net
and would not be able to climb to the edge.
Alderperson McCollister questioned what the City’s liability issues would be. She also
asked whether the City could recover the costs for the rescue of someone who may
jump into the net as a thrill seeking adventure. Deputy Chief Parsons responded that
Resource Recovery Legislation has been drafted and is in the City Attorney’s Office for
review. Common Council will have to decide upon that policy issue.
Mayor Peterson questioned whether Council should also consider new legislation to
address issues such as littering (throwing items) in the nets.
Alderperson Myrick asked how people would be rescued from the nets. Deputy Chief
Parsons stated that fire fighters would be vertically lowered into the nets (repelling), and
then the people would be lifted out of the nets via a Stokes Basket.
August 1, 2011
2
Alderperson Cogan questioned whether people would be able to self-rescue. Deputy
Chief Parsons noted that it would depend upon the extent of injuries, and that most
likely it would be an assisted rescue. He further noted that there were no incidents of
recreational or intentional jumping into the nets in Switzerland.
Commissioner Acharya questioned how someone would know if there was a person in
the net. Deputy Chief Parsons responded that it would be by visual inspection, similar
to how people are currently discovered. Mayor Peterson noted that motion detectors
and video cameras could be installed if necessary.
Alderperson Zumoff questioned what the City’s liability would be if someone sustained a
significant injury from the net such as a broken neck. City Attorney Hoffman stated that
there is not a lot of case law on this subject noting the question is would courts impose
a new duty on municipalities to protect people from doing something that they shouldn’t
do.
Alderperson McCollister noted that she is concerned about installing barriers when they
are not the norm, and questioned whether that increases the City’s liability. City
Attorney Hoffman stated that Common Council may want to get an opinion from an
insurance professional who works with the subject of risk. In any case, the City should
make it clear that people might be injured or killed by jumping into the nets.
Alderperson Clairborne questioned whether people simply go to a different
bridge/location to jump once barriers were installed on bridges. Deputy Chief Parsons
responded that based on his research and readings, people did not go to other places
to jump.
Superintendent of Public Works Gray reported that the Columbia Street Bridge could be
considered an alternate location for the other bridges, so the Board of Public Works has
approved a change in the design of the handrails.
DAC Chair/BPW Liaison Roberts noted that the nets are intended to slow down
impulsive people. They will not prevent people from killing themselves.
Superintendent Gray explained the maintenance cycle of a bridge and noted that the
net systems appear to fall within the life cycles and would not be a detriment, or impede
bridge inspections or maintenance. The nets have a 10 year replacement cycle, bridge
decks have a 40 year replacement cycle. Superintendent Gray further noted that the
nets may act as an additional safety precaution for the staff who inspect and maintain
the bridges. Assistant Superintendent of Water & Sewer Whitney added that the water
and sewer pipe suspensions are near the bridge decks, the only question he has is in
regards to the anchoring systems the nets use. The nets would be installed far below
the pipes.
Mayor Peterson questioned the weight impact of the nets on the bridges.
Superintendent Gray noted that the nets include several tons of steel but they are quite
light in comparison to the bridge capacity.
City Clerk Holcomb reported that Deputy Police Chief John Barber stated that Cornell
representatives showed the chiefs the net designs and gave them an information
packet. He stated that since the nets were installed in Switzerland, there have been no
falls. He stated that should the nets be installed in Ithaca, he would want police officers
to train with the Fire Department so they could assist with any falls/accidents.
Alderperson Dotson questioned how small items that would collect in the nets would be
removed. Superintendent Gray noted that there is not much history of having to
retrieve materials out of the bridges as the wind most likely carries the items over. He
noted that perhaps it could be a training opportunity for the Fire Department to remove
heavier items such as road signs, cones, barricades, etc. or perhaps grappling devices
could be used. He stated that he doesn’t have all of the answers to the questions as
this technology has not been used locally; however, it appears as if the nets will be a
August 1, 2011
3
low maintenance item that will only require an annual wash down which the Department
already conducts on the bridges.
City Attorney Hoffman addressed the topic of longevity/permanence. He stated that the
Environmental Quality Review process has not been completed. Cornell will need to
specify what the terms of the agreement would be. He further stated that it should not
be assumed that the City would be taking on a “forever” obligation to maintain the nets.
Alderperson McGonigal questioned whether the nets would increase the safety of fire
fighters and police officers during rescues. Deputy Chief Parsons responded that if the
weather is good, the Fire Department can get into the gorge pretty safely; however,
there is always risk. If the weather is bad, high winds or water, their job becomes more
dangerous. If there is a reduction in the number of gorge rescues, then it improves
safety because the fire fighters and police officers won’t have to go into the gorge.
Commissioner Acharya questioned how many people are killed in the gorge due to
accidents versus how many are suicides. He questioned whether there were other
means to prevent deaths in the gorges. Deputy Chief Parsons responded the people’s
choices put them in harm’s way.
Planning & Development Director Cornish reported that the Planning Board review of
the nets will be focused on the visual and structural impacts they will have. She stated
that the biggest concern is visual and questioned whether the nets would be made of
galvanized steel or painted black. She stated that the lowest level of maintenance
possible is the City’s goal.
Alderperson Dotson left the meeting at 5:55 p.m.
Mayor Peterson noted that the Police Department response has been similar to that of
the Fire Department. She stated this decision is not just about the nets; it will have a
financial impact on the City. She stated that the related topics of maintenance, rescues
and trash removal need to be considered as well.
Alderperson Zumoff questioned what the process and timeline were. He noted that the
financial questions should be answered by early October.
Alderperson McGonigal left the meeting at 6:05 pm.
Alderperson Rooker questioned how much a typical rescue costs. Deputy Chief
Parsons responded that a rescue operation typically costs between $2,000 - $4,000;
however, it varies depending upon location, weather conditions, etc.
Alderperson McCollister stated that she had expected to come away from this meeting
with more information such as the effectiveness of the nets, the costs, whether or not
people can still get over the edge of the nets, etc. She stated that she thinks that the
City and Cornell are poised to make very bad public policy decisions. She noted that
she is frustrated and deeply concerned that the City will do something that won’t be
effective.
Next Steps:
Commissioner Acharya noted that he is concerned with the trifurcation and the way the
City is divided on the consideration of this issue. He noted that Cornell is speaking with
one voice on this issue but the City is speaking with three: Planning
Board/environmental review; public works; Common Council. He cautioned the City to
make sure they know what they will be getting from Cornell University before the
decision is made.
Alderperson Zumoff noted that the e-mails he has been receiving and the sentiments
expressed at meetings regarding the cost of a human life and “if it saves 1 life, the City
should do it” have not been persuasive to him. He stated that the important facts in the
equation are how much does it cost and how many lives will be impacted by the action.
August 1, 2011
4
Mayor Peterson questioned whether people have made their decisions already. She
noted that it is costly and not efficient to pull all of the additional information together if
people have already decided how they will vote.
Alderperson Cogan stated that he tends to think along the lines of Alderpersons
McCollister and Zumoff. He voiced his concern about the liability issues and the fact
that the proposal from Cornell has not been made yet. He stated that he understands
that this issue is important to Cornell and he is trying to keep an open mind; however,
he would need Cornell to indemnify the City and cover all of the costs in order for him to
support this action.
Alderperson Rooker stated that he believes the nets would be effective. He noted that
every mental health professional and emergency responder has said that the nets
would save lives. He stated that he is comfortable moving forward with the
environmental review but feels that the first priority should be receiving the financial
information from Cornell.
Commissioner Wykstra stated that he needs to see the proposal from Cornell that
should include timelines, material information, cost, maintenance, etc.
Alderperson Myrick stated that he agrees with the comments made and asked whether
it would be possible to authorize the Mayor to enter into negotiations with Cornell so that
a proposal could be brought back to Council and the Board of Public Works. Mayor
Peterson responded that sometimes Council gives the Mayor parameters to negotiate
within. She stated that she would be meeting with Cornell officials soon and would tell
them that the City wants a proposal within the next two weeks.
Alderperson Rosario stated that he would entertain a proposal that came by the end of
August. He stated that he appreciated hearing the emergency rescue information and
the costs of other technology.
Alderperson McCollister responded to comments made about the mental health
community being united on this issue. She stated that there were prominent mental
health professionals at earlier meetings who did not speak as they couldn’t stay (there
was over 2 hours of public speaking), and they did not want to be perceived as being
pro-suicide. She stated that this is a far more complicated matter than is being
portrayed. Alderperson Rooker and DAC Chair Roberts stated that they would love to
hear from them as this is the first time someone from the mental health community has
indicated that they do not support the nets.
Alderperson Cogan noted that the City and Cornell are partners in many community
initiatives and stated that there are ways to find a mutually beneficial agreement.
ADJOURNMENT
On a motion the meeting adjourned at 6:35 p.m.
______________________________ _______________________________
Julie Conley Holcomb, CMC Carolyn K. Peterson,
City Clerk Mayor