HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010-03-05-STB SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
MARCH 5TH, 2010
* * Note the full discussion of this meeting is available on the Ulysses web site
@ulysses.ny. us
Present : Supervisor Roxanne Marino ; Board Members Liz Thomas and Lucia Tyler;
David Kerness and Kevin Romer absent; Town Clerk Marsha Georgia; James Weber,
Highway Superintendent Director of Public Works and Herb Engman, Town Supervisor
both from the Town of Ithaca; Douglas Austic, Water Superintendent and Richard
Coogan Water Superintendent Assistant; Diane Hillman Chair of the Water Commission.
Supervisor Marino called the meeting to order shortly after 1 : 30 pm and said that the
purpose of the meeting was to get some sense as to what the Town of Ulysses owes the
Town of Ithaca for the water purchases because there are some differences and also to
discuss the installment of a meter to have a better record of the water use .
Ms . Marino distributed the packet of information that was provided by Mr. Engman of
Ithaca. One of the items of information provided was a spread sheet of the Town of
Ulysses Water Rents which included the consumption billed to Ulysses, payment from
Ulysses, penalties charged to Ulysses and some adjustments . Also the drawings for the
purposed pump house with a new meter were distributed .
Ms . Marino said that Eric Pond of Barton & Logudice was asked to look over the
drawings that Ithaca had provided and give the Town an estimate on if the cost was
reasonable or not. The email answer Ms . Marino received from Mr. Pond was provided
to the group . The last item in the packet provided by Ms . Marino is the 2003 water
agreement with the Town of Ithaca and Ulysses that is presently being operated under.
Ms . Marino said she believes we are all interested in keeping the cost as low as possible
to the tax payers and the water user' s and in being fair to both municipalities, and that
Ulysses really appreciates receiving the water from the Town of Ithaca for our water
districts
Ms . Marino said that today there are two goals but first and foremost is to try to evaluate
the amount and the magnitude of the problem here both in terms of missing water
volume and dollars, and if there is any idea as to where the water is going that the Town
is not metering to their users . We need to find a way to work from here that is fair and
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reasonable and agreed upon. In that light we have the proposal that was discussed earlier,
before Ms . Marino came on the Board, to put in a meter to measure the water used by
Ulysses customers more accurately.
Town of Ithaca Supervisor Engman said that they are here today to provide any further
information beyond what was previously asked for. Mr. Engman said that it was clear
that in the beginning there was some confusion to the amounts billed and some
adjustments were made .
*Note Mr. Engman provide a spread sheet of all charges, adjustments, payments and
penalties made to the Town of Ulysses from the Town of Ithaca from 9/4/2004 to
3/ 1 /2010 .
Mr. Engman said that part of the reason the history of billing is rather complicated is that
there have been adjustments made over time for various reasons that are not clear, so it
may get a little confusing when you read down through the spread sheet. Mr. Engman
explained the spread sheet in more detail .
Mr. Engman asked Mr. Austic if he knew the answer to why the Town of Ithaca made an
adjustment of $ 37,950 . 59 in 2005 which wiped the slate clean and brought the balance
that the Town of Ulysses owed the Town of Ithaca to zero . Mr. Engman had no idea
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what this adjustment was for. The balance that is owed the Town of Ithaca at 3/ 1 /2010 is
$45 , 584. 01 including penalties .
Mr. Austic did not know the answer.
Mr. Engman said when he came on as Town Supervisor in January 2008 he reviewed all
Town of Ithaca contracts and with this billing to the Town of Ulysses it was apparent to
him that Ulysses was not paying Ithaca for what they were being billed.
Mr. Engman said at that time he started working with Mr. Austic to try and figure this
out.
Mr. Austic said that he would like to point out that as far as he can remember the Town
had one bill that was received from Ithaca/Bolton Point prior to the end of 2007 . What
the Town has been doing is paying for what the Town used according to total customer
meter readings plus 10% .
Mr. Engman said he understood that Ulysses was being billed and can not understand
Ulysses paying if they were not getting bills .
Mr. Austic said that the agreement was to pay for what the Town used plus 10% .
Mr. Engman asked what Ulysses was using for a backup .
Mr. Austic said Ulysses gave the meter readings as to what the Town billed plus the 10% .
Mr. Austic said that in 2007 the Town started getting bills from the Town of Ithaca.
Mr. Engman said that it was changed in 2007 because another person was running things
and wanted to do it more by the book. Mr. Engman said he was told that Bolton Point
sent bills prior to that.
Mr. Austic said he never received bills .
Mr. Weber said that he has copies of bills from Bolton Point and beginning in 2006 Dan
Walker' s name appears but prior to that the bills indicate they were mailed to Ulysses
Town Hall.
More discussion took place about the bills, not receiving the bills, and the current
balance .
There has been penalties assessed that have never been sent to Ulysses .
Ms . Marino said she tried to put things into perspective and had started at the point the
balance was zero and stopped at 2009 where a balance had built up to $36,000 over
roughly 4 years, or about $ 9000 per year. Ms . Marino said that about $ 10,000 of is this is
in penalties and does not have to do with direct water use . So roughly $26,000 over four
years or $6 , 500 a year in missing water . If the Town keeps averaging that much each
year and using the current water rate of $4. 35 per thousand gallons you would estimate
1 , 500,000 gallons a year as the discrepancy missing water.
Ms . Marino said that after looking over the figures Mr. Engman gave her it looks like the
use is reasonably constant over time and the water that is unmetered by Ulysses is 8 to
10% of the total water billed for.
Mr. Engman asked what the practice in Ulysses is for flushing hydrants or selling water
to those with water tankers .
Mr. Austic said that all that water is metered and included in the total. A meter is
attached to a hydrant and a total is kept of the amount sold or flushed.
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Mr. Engman said that he and Mr. Weber had a discussion about all of this in relationship
to the pay back period and they were looking at figures coming up with about $ 10,000 a
year disputed charges . Mr. Engman said that for each town to invest $60,000 in a two
way meter to make sure to understand where the water is going results in a 6 year pay-
back time .
Ms . Marino was also trying to figure out a pay-back cost and in that context if it would be
reasonable to investing in the meter or just living with the mystery and making an
agreement that everyone can stick to and live with .
Mr. Engman said would the two way meter solve all of the problems of knowing where
all of the water is going.
Mr. Weber said what you would is a two way metering of water and that Ulysses would
be billed according to the meter and so the question of where the loss is actually
occurring would be resolved.
The discussion followed to the pros and cons of the two way meter.
Mr. Coogan pointed out that it is normal to have a 3 to 5 percent loss at anytime and that
he felt that the 8 to 10 percent loss was high and sees it only fair that both Towns share a
loss factor.
A discussion followed about revising the agreement with the Town of Ithaca as may be
necessary.
Both Ithaca and Ulysses will take this information back to their Boards . The next time
Ithaca will be meeting is March 22 , 2010 .
Hearing no further discussion the meeting adjourned at 2 : 55 pm.
Respectfully submitted,
Marsha L. Georgia
Ulysses Town Clerk
MLG : mlg