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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006-10-25 - PB TOWN OF ULYSSES
PLANNING BOARD-PUBLIC HEARING
10/25/06
Approved November 2, 2006
Present : Chairperson Margot Chiuten, Planning Board Members : David Means,
Rebecca Schneider, John Wertis, Ken Zeserson, Code Enforcement Officer
Alex Rachun, Deputy Supervisor Richard Coogan .
Excused : Rod Porter, Darien Simon
Applicants : Jamie Kehoe-Owner, Peter Novelli-Engineer, Jody Allen-Engineer
Public : Irene Kehoe (8040 Route 227 , Trumansburg, NY) , Randy Murphy (312 Fourth St,
Ithaca, NY), Ken and Hester Welch ( 1501 Taughannock Blvd), Joanne Molino (8325 Route 227 ,
Trumansburg, NY) Barry Havec (8325 Route 227 , Trumansburg, NY) , Mike Kimberly and
Dawn Kimberly ( 1511 Taughannock Blvd, Trumansburg, NY), Joan Barber and Myrtle Barber
( 1505 Taughannock Blvd, Trumansburg, NY), Dan Clement and Celia Clement (5027 Dubois
Road, Ithaca, NY) Donald Wilson ( 106 Willow Creek Point Road, Ithaca, NY), Warren Brown
and Lynn Brown ( 102 Willow Creek Point Road, Ithaca, NY), Carol Northrup ( 11 Halsey St,
Trumansburg, NY), Ted MacCarrick (3200 Krums Corners Rd, Trumansburg, NY),
Steve Weaver ( 1110& 1400 Taughannock Blvd, Ithaca, NY), Billy Grunder (9292 Route 96 ,
Trumansburg, NY) .
Ms . Chiuten stated legal notices were published and notification letters were sent to the
neighbors . She called the meeting and a duly advertised public hearing to order at
7 : 30pm. She requested Mr. Kehoe give a brief introduction of the project she stated if he
had a plan for the people to see it would be helpful .
Mr. Kehoe introduced himself, the project was started in 1995 . He moved here in 1975
his family resided at 21 Congress Street, they just sold the property last year. His mother
and father raised 6 kids there, they grew up her, went to St . James Church and went to
Trumansburg Jr. High and High School . He purchased the property in 1995 it was a 10
year plan, at that time he was going to finish his career in California in the entertainment
industry, he had 10 years to complete it . In the 1950 ' s this property was a boy' s camp
called Blue Jay Boys Camp , in the early 1960 ' s it was turned into a hotel . When he
purchased the property from Mr. Durokowitz the property was a disaster, the creek was
full of trash, car bumpers, toilets, bed frames, glass-it took them three years to clean the
creek. They were trying to get the creek back to its natural state, this was accomplished
this year. They do not anticipate opening the place for another year. The goal would be
the end of 2007 . He stated there are 6 structures on the property, the goal is to keep the
original structures for architectural reasons, there were 15 they will have 7 to offer
tourism and the trails . It is sacred ground to him, he hopes to support the community.
He is unsure what to say it is his first public hearing, if somebody offered a suitcase with
10 or 20 million dollars to sell the place he would say no , it is not for sale.
Ms . Chiuten asked for clarification, the plan states they are rehabbing 7 units and
building 3 new units for 10 total units .
Mr. Kehoe affirmed this and they would hold 2 to 4 people per unit. He pointed out the
different buildings on the map for the public to see . The old units, the new units, hobby
barns and horse barn were counted out. He stated the new units are all under 1 , 000 square
feet.
Ms . Welch asked what the circles were on the map .
Ms . Allen introduced herself as a project engineer, she stated the circles were trees-she
pointed out where new trees would be planted as well as the old trees on the property.
Mr. Welch stated they reside at 1501 Taughannock Blvd . , they are across from the site. His
concern is septic runoff into Crager' s Creek this goes right into the lake where they all have
beach wells .
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Mr. Kehoe stated the creek has over 150 acres behind the property that is all farmland this drains
from the top of the hill, it comes down through the property.
Ms . Allen stated she has designed all of the septic systems and has designed many systems in
Tompkins County. The systems all meet requirements, they are below the creek or lateral to the
creek, they meet the 150 feet distance requirement.
Mr. Welch stated everything goes down to the lake, he asked if there were sand filter systems .
Ms . Allen stated she designed a raised fill system this meets requirements of the state and
Tompkins County codes . In a raised fill system perkable soil is placed on top of the ground
then the affluent would go into the perkable soil and be dissipated, they also have a lot of
evaporation with this type of system. The leech lines are actually two feet above the existing
ground there is a lot of evaporation many times of the years .
Ms . Chiuten asked if the septic systems were already in place .
Ms. Allen stated no they are just designs .
Ms. Chiuten asked for clarification if there was concern the septic is running into the lake or it
may run into the lake .
Mr. Welch stated it is common knowledge everything that is put into the ground around the lake
runs into the lake he does not care where they put it. It does not matter if it is fertilizer etc . seeing
as they have beach wells it is a critical concern, as is the disposal of manure from the horses.
Mr. Kehoe stated there would be no concern. There is not an exact location but the manure pens
will be used as fertilizer for his property. There are two horses .
Mr. Welch stated it is a concern, even with the soil erosion impediments there is still dirt in the
creek from his property.
1
Mr. Kehoe stated it is not coming from his property, it is coming from the top of the hill, they are
dealing with hundreds of acres behind his property.
Mr. Welch understands that but the silt is coming into the beach wells .
Mr. Novelli stated this project has been under stormwater permit from NYS DEC, they have
been onsite and it is in compliance .
Mr. Welch stated it is now but when he called the DEC it was not. That was about a year ago and
there was no soil containment. He spoke to Jamie about this, he is doing a good job now-but it is
a problem with this creek everything runs into the lake and their creek.
Mr. Novelli stated the regulations changed it went from 5 acres to 1 acres of disturbed soil
a year ago . Once Jamie was made aware of this he brought the project into compliance. Once this
project is completed he should have no runoff from this property.
Ms . Chiuten stated she needed to interject that this is not intended to be a question and answer
period. But rather to hear the comments they can take into account when they write the approval .
They can write in conditions for example-proper soil/ erosion control measures be enacted on the
site whenever work is being done . If it is a simple clarification they can answer, she is concerned
with getting stuck on one topic when they need to hear all the comments .
Mr. Welch stated he is concerned with noise problems, he understands the plans include wedding
receptions and other reunions for up to 140- 150 people. This is a real problem for septic systems,
he does not know what the plan is for rest rooms for this amount of people. He is also concerned
with noise pollution to his knowledge the Town of Ulysses does not have noise pollution or
decibel ratings . There are regulations on the lake and in the Town of Ithaca but nobody will
come measure and do anything about it. Two years ago they had a party on this site they had
loud music until 10 : 00 at night-he had to call the Sheriffs Department to come do something
Planning Board 3
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about it. He does not think they should be allowed to have outside speakers or a lot of loud
music , it does not make any sense to him.
Mr. Clements stated he would like to talk about the upper side of this . This map does not go all
of the way up to the property line on the West side .
Mr. Kehoe stated this property does not border Dubois Road, there is another section then the
Black Diamond Trail and Mr. Brown ' s property.
Mr. Clements stated there are horse paths for people to be brought up on wagons with walking
trails . He asked if there were maps showing this trails .
Ms . Allen provided a topographical map with the trails marked.
Mr. Clements indicated on the map the back line of the property. He stated there are walking
paths on the edges of the borders that go onto his property. Their concern is there would be
people using these trails and coming onto his property. They have a pond on his land, it is a nice
area they mow about four acres, they have a little pavilion with a changing room. Beyond the
pond which is a minute and a half walk to Jamie ' s property are trails . They have paths on their
property as well . The land was purchased from Jim Brown, he had made paths on their property
that are wide enough to bring a tractor through. He has concerns guests walking on their own
could go further and find a place that is attractive and quite a distance from his house. He cannot
see this area from his home. He would like to ask Jamie do whatever he can to prevent people
from coming onto his property. He offered pictures of his property showing the ponds, pavilion,
trails and property lines with signs .
Mr. Kehoe stated he is glad he brought up these concerns . When they start to clear the back part
of this party there are several locust trees they have used to make a fence along the back side.
They will continue this fence when they finish clearing the back lot. His concern is the same as
Mr. Clements especially hunters .
Mr. Clements stated he allows a few people to hunt on their property, however there are other
hunters that do come onto the land to hunt.
Mr. Kehoe stated he allows three family members to hunt on the property. His concern is chasing
people off the property that he has no control over hunting there . He will do all he can do to
make sure people stay within their designated area. He will be responsible for anything that
happens . He can provide colored areas and topographical area maps . He is hoping he can get the
kids from the Cayuga Nature Center to help erect fences using the black locust trees .
Mr. Clements stated this sounded good however he would request the Planning Board make this
a formal condition and written down. Also, the fact that he notify the neighbors and guests in a
formal way, anything that can be formalized would help .
Ms . Chiuten asked for clarification that the trails are on his property.
Mr. Kehoe stated these are preexisting trails, Mr. Brown had made all of these trails and
unbeknown to Mr. Kehoe, Mr. Brown continued to mow these trails .
Mr. Clements stated the trail he is most concerned with is the trail next to the bridge.
Mr. Kehoe asked if the Black Diamond Trail is on his property, is the Black Diamond Trail
the one that is mowed.
Mr. Clements stated the mowed paths are not that, the Black Diamond Trail is the railroad bed.
Mr. Grunder stated the trails are all in place. There is one that comes to a peak and there are
posted signs, but they could put up log fences .
Ms . Chiuten stated this could be addressed by the applicant and Mr. Clements, she asked that the
pictures be given to the Board for review .
Planning Board 4
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Mr. Foss stated he is a neighbor to the Northwest area. He asked if there are plans for spot lights
or elevated lights in the area of hobby barn/parking lot.
Mr. Kehoe stated on the plan it does not show any exterior light pointed towards him . There
would be low Malibu lighting in that area. Where the new units are going in there would be
entryway lighting but no lighting pointed towards his property.
Ms . Northrup stated she owns most of the gorge, she owns a lot right next to Jamie ' s property
and her brother has had to put up a lot of posted signs. She is concerned on the effect of her
property.
Mr. Kehoe stated he does not see any problem, there are a bunch of stones and an old fence line
that runs along the property to designate the borders .
Ms . Northrup asked if she could come onto the property to see, it is difficult for her to traverse
the gorge to get to that side of the property.
Mr. Kehoe stated he would love to have her come check it out. If anyone else would like to come
see what they are doing they are free to call and make a time and he will show them better what
he is doing.
Ms . Welch stated she is thinking there may be odor from the horse barns, she is not sure if it is a
real concern, but every night they get a nice down draft that cools their property. It might not be
as nice if there are manure odors.
Ms. Brown stated Hester mentioned down drafts and it could be problematic in that some people
have burn barrels. Their property is like a chimney at times when people are burning their
garbage. Since this is zoned commercial will there be garbage burning.
Mr. Coogan stated Tompkins County has a ban on burning garbage. It is a health department
concern, if someone is burning garbage they should be reported.
Mr. Kehoe stated they will not be burning garbage .
Ms . Chiuten asked if there were any other comments . The audience offered no additional
comments .
Ms . Chiuten stated they can discuss what they can do at this point. There would be no decision
making tonight. The Planning Board ' s responsibility is to make an environmental determination
on the project and to grant Site Plan approval or deny Site Plan approval . At this point all they
are trying to do is get public comments . They will take the comments and continue to review the
project, at this point she asked the Board if they wanted to close the Public Hearing or continue
the Public Hearing if they feel there are other concerns they might hear from others or if they feel
there is additional information they need they should discuss this now.
Ms . Schneider stated she is interested in one of the comments made regarding the septic systems
and capacity to handle large amounts of people. She is not sure they adequately dealt with that it
may need additional information it would be a point to discuss and revisit.
Mr. Novelli stated they had discussed they would use port-a-johns for events like this .
Mr. Kehoe stated they are considered honey wagons . The port- a johns he would be using are not
stand up outhouses, they are vehicles that are trailers that come out of Binghamton and Syracuse.
They are 20 feet, 30 feet, 35 feet, and 45 feet; some are better than home bathrooms . They have
gray water and clean water not the liquid you see in construction sight port-a johns . They have
used these in the past at parties they have had. He can provide the literature showing the units
they have .
Ms. Allen stated this has less environmental impact, they use these units for the LPGA
Tournament where they accommodate 40, 000 people. They bring them in and are all contained
onsite and are removed onsite-there is no runoff.
Ms . Schneider stated her second comment is they requested this information and just received it
,t
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Friday which translates to yesterday or today for some of them. It would be useful to have the
extra time to review what was given because he obviously put some time but they have not had
time to discuss . She feels they need to have the additional time to review in case they feel they
need additional information.
Mr. Kehoe stated the reason they received the information late is he put down the wrong mailing
address and he did not receive it in the mail . He tried to act as quick as possible and apologized
for the delay he really hoped they would have the information before Friday.
Ms . Chiuten stated that as part of the environmental review the information they had received
had been forwarded to other agencies requesting the Planning Board be designated lead agency
including New York State Department of Transportation, New York State DEC, Tompkins
County Health Department, New York State Historic Preservation Office. They were allowed
30 days to respond, if no comment is heard it is determined a non response and no interest.
She stated they had received several correspondence related to this project.
Ms . Chiuten read into the record the letter received from New York State Department of
Transportation.
Planning Board 6
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4.,
} 1
STATE OF NEW YORK
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
REGION THREE
• 333 E. WASHINGTON STREET
SYRACUSE, NEW YORK 13202
www.dotstate.ny.us
CARL F. FORD, P.E. THOMAS MADISON, JR.
ACTING REGIONAL DIRECTOR COMMISSIONER
October 13, 2006
Ms. Margot Chiuten, Chairperson
Town of Ulysses Planning Board
10 Elm Street
Trumansburg, New York 14886
Dear Ms. Chiuten:
R.E.: SEQR.-Lead Agency Desitation
Proposed Keyman's New Park Tn.
• Town of Ulysses; Tompkins County
We have received the material on the above referenced proposal. The Region has no
objections to the Town of Ulysses Planning Board assuming lead agency status for SEQR purposes.
Please remember any work within the right-of-way of N.Y.S. Route 89 will require a State
Highway Work Permit. The individual to contact in this regard is Mr. Stanley Birchenough, Resident
Engineer, Cortland/Tornpkins Maintenance Residency, (607) 756-7072.
If you have any other questions contact William Egloff, of niy staff, at (315) 428-4102.
Very Artily yours,
•
Mark Frechette, P.E.
Director, Planning & Program Management Group
By f
4
Qsg4 (227/1-4141
I
is M. Gross
. sociate Transportation Analyst. •
Planning Board 7
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Ms . Chiuten read into the record the letter from Tompkins County Planning Department.
Toiupkitts County
DEPAR1 MEN `-'OF PLANNING
INNING
121 hast,CQ`urt Street,:
Edward C. Marx, AICP i
Ithaca, New_Yorl. 24350
Commissioner of Planning Telephone (607) 274-5560
and Public Works Fax (607) 274-5578
September 15, 2006
Mr. Richard Coogan, Deputy Supervisor
Town of Ulysses
10 Elm Street
Trumansburg, NY 14386
Re: Review Pursuant to §239 -1 and -m of the New York State General Municipal Law
Action: Site Plan Approval, Keyman's New Park, 1500 Taughannock Boulevard, Tax Parcel No. 18.4-2
Dear Mr. Coogan :
This letter acknowledges your referral of the proposal identified above for review and comment by the
Tompkins County Planning Department pursuant to §239 -1 and -m of the New York State General Municipal
Law. The Department has reviewed the proposal, as submitted. and has determined that it has no negative inter-
community, or county-wide impacts.
The Department offers the following comment regarding the proposed project, which is not a formal
recommendation under General Municipal Law §239 -1 and —m:
• We encourage reducing the number of curb cuts on State Route 89 and ensuring adequate circulation
patterns onsite so that vehicles do not need to exit onto Route 89 to access other portions of the property.
Please inform us of your decision so that we can make it a part of the record.
Sincerely,
,�
Edward C. Marx, AICP
Commissioner of Planning
and Public Works
cc: Carl Ford, Regional Director, NYS Department of Transportation
Ms . Chiuten read into the record the letter from Sue Ritter, Ulysses Resident
Planning Board 8
10252006
October 23, 2006
Town of Ulysses Planning Board
Town of Ulysses Town Hall
10 Elm Street
Trurnansburg, NY 14886
Dear Planning Board Members,
I am writing as a concerned Town of Ulysses resident in regards to the Keyman's New Park, Inc.
project. As a nearby resident who passes the site daily 1 have watched (and quite frankly been
dismayed by) the transformation of this property. hi checking with Town staff and reviewing the
project files I was disappointed to find that such active development was proceeding without
apparently having an approved site plan, a public hearing, or sufficient environmental oversight.
Development on this property has been ongoing throughout the summer, and has included
intensive clearing and grading of the land without adequate erosion and sedimentation control
measures, along with complete denuding of the vegetation along the stream channel. The
property owner has also developed parking areas, moved structures, improved driveways, and
installed other additional project features. While the Planning Board could have viewed the
extent of these site modification activities critically, and required the applicant to adhere to the
process more closely, I question whether the spirit of the purpose of a planning board has been
disregarded. The Planning Board minutes of August 15 indicated that the applicant's lack of
environmental sensitivity and continuing investment in site plan elements was never even
questioned. And instead, this applicant was granted pennission to install an 8 foot high stockade
fence along approximately 1000 feet of Route 89, without SEQR approval, a public hearing, or
site plan approval. This fencing, oddly out of character, and an aesthetic impact along the Route
89 Scenic Byway, should have been subject to SEQR review and considered along with every
other site plan element. I seriously question the Board's judgment of granting this permission,
and even more importantly, the legality of allowing this element of the project to go forward
without adhering to the required site plan review process.
Is the Planning Board examining this project as critically as it would any new commercial
business development proposal in the Town of Ulysses? Has the applicant' s actions thus far
(including the need for NYS DEC involvement on the site last year raised red flags, and
motivated the Board to insure that this project does not pose any additional negative impact on
the environment or become a nuisance to the neighborhood? 1
Given that much of the property is located within the Willow Creek Glen and Lake Slopes
Unique Natural Area I. think that giving special attention to any proposed development in this
area is appropriate. This land includes steep slopes, and likely contains areas with erodible soils.
As shown on aerial photos, several streams appear to traverse the back portions of this property.
The applicant states that he intends to have buggy rides with draft horses, as well as
opportunities for mountain bike riding as part of the proposal, both of which can have a serious
Planning Board 9
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effect on the finest soil and on nearby streams. I do not recall seeing on the applicant's
submitted site plan a grading/clearing plan, nor erosion and sedimentation control plan, for
development of these trails to allow such activities, and would hope that this aspect of the project
be closely scrutinized by the Board.
Does the Planning Board feel that a traffic analysis is important? The project will generate
additional traffic on Route 89, and the applicant should be required to provide an estimate of
these traffic impacts, especially an estimate of potential peak traffic amounts. Traffic on Route
89 continues to grow each year, with peak traffic occurring especially during the summer
months. Examining how this new traffic generating commercial use will affect existing traffic
patterns is an essential part of the SEQR process. Such analysis should also help to gauge
whether proposed parking on the site will be adequate, and if not, the applicant should be
required to submit proof that alternate plans are in place (written agreements) to address this, and
to insure that patrons will not be parking on Route 89. Does the Planning Board have a sense of .
the size and the intensity of use for this project? Has the Planning Board identified thresholds of
size or use that if exceeded, would mandate further review of or limit this project?
And finally, this site is in a residential neighborhood that includes an existing nature center and
surrounding preserve focusing on natural science education and passive recreational uses. I
would urge the Board to insure that this proposal not become a nuisance to the neighborhood,
and prohibit this project from using outdoor amplified sounds as well as require that all outdoor
lighting fixtures be fully shielded and have full cut-off features.
Thank you for your consideration on this matter. _
Sincerely,
; ll Imo,.
Susan Ritter
1194 Kraft Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
cc: Dick Coogan, Deputy Town of Ulysses Supervisor
2
Ms . Chiuten asked if there were any other comments .
Mr. Welch asked in the events such as weddings/receptions where would the traffic be entering
and exiting the property.
Mr. Kehoe indicated on the property map what driveways he would be using for traffic to enter
and exit. He stated because of the danger from having the Cayuga Motel, when he purchased the
property he was so alarmed for himself and his guests he established the exits with better
visibility by clearing out the brush etc .
Mr. Welch noticed he closed off the south entrance .
Mr. Kehoe affirmed this, no traffic would be coming in and out of this entrance due to dangerous
conditions .
Mr. Clement asked if there would be any motorized vehicles on the paths/trails behind the
housing units .
Planning Board 10
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Mr. Kehoe stated there would not . In the letter it stated they were not paying attention to the land
and not respecting it. He wishes he had brought in a video, he came close to doing it, of how
many years it took of clearing the trash out of the creek that went down into Cayuga Lake. He
spent 1 ,000 ' s of dollars and 100 ' s and 100 ' s of man hours to accomplish this . It was their goal to
never start building until the property was clean. Today he is still pulling bumpers out of the
creek. As far as the trails the old logging trails are back to their original state he did not build
those he removed some trees and had them timbered. The roads bordering the property have been
there he does not know how long but he did not build them .
Mr. Clements stated he has certainly upgraded them, he put in a bridge.
Mr. Kehoe stated the bridge in back was put in, the previous owner started and he finished it.
There are other bridges going in but they are not anywhere near the back, the plans indicate
where these bridges would go .
Ms . Northrup asked what creek they are talking about.
Mr. Kehoe stated there are only two creeks on the property. There is one main creek he is not
sure what it is called but it is not Willow Creek which runs through Ms . Northrup ' s property.
Ms . Welch stated she had always referred to it a Crager ' s Creek when growing up in the area.
Ms . Allen stated the Board had asked for a USGS Topographical map . That is what this map is
basically, they went out and surveyed the areas with greater accuracy then the USGS map, TG
Miller' s had done the boundary survey. They took TG Miller ' s map boundary survey and their
map with 'basically one foot contours and overlaid onto their work. The brown lines and blue are
USGS they can purchase off the internet.
Ms . Schneider asked if it was geo-referenced.
Ms . Allen stated they did not it was arc-viewed. They can get it in arc-view off the internet
and put their drawing over the top of it. There is not a need to because all of their survey work
overlaid the roads, the elevation does not matter per se. In the area he is actually doing 1 I
construction they have very accurate survey construction. They tried to do what they asked for
but the felt their information is more accurate.
Ms . Chiuten stated the Board ' s concern regarding the grading is the work being done in the
stream bed, whether the flow will be changed or altered.
Mr. Kehoe stated not one bit, they are not doing anything to disturb the natural flow of these
creeks . They are removing trash to make sure they are clean and not disturb and erode the land
around them . They needed to be cleaned and maintained. There is no changing of the creeks .
Mr. Grunder stated the creeks are going the same way they always did, the difference is the guy
did body work, he would throw bumpers and stuff like that and throw stuff on top of that. The
difference is they took all of that stuff out and purchased rocks to retain the walls so there is not
runoff anymore so they are not losing real estate and they are not getting it into the lake . They
have put rocks instead of car bumpers, they are trying to put it back to its natural state. They
have not changed where it goes, it would overflow and wash things out .
Mr. Novelli stated to discuss the three bridges that will be built, they are not vehicular bridges,
the abutments will not be in the creek beds . There will no stream disturbance during the
construction of the bridges. He did have a conversation with DEC in June to find out the status of 'I
the creek and whether a stream disturbance permit would be required for the work they are doing
with the bridges . The response from John Merriman in Cortland Region 7 office was these
particular streams are not protected, no permit is required. Not withstanding this they are still
constructing the abutments outside of the creek. The work Jamie has done since 1995 cleaning
up the creek did not require a permit for stream disturbance. He understands the work he has
done has made some disturbance, but if you look at the project you will see he has stabilized
these banks with heavy stone rip rap to stabilize the soil so this will not happen again.
Mr. Clements stated he would like clarification on the bridges, he was looking at the paper
earlier and it appears there is a pedestrian bridge .
Planning Board 11
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Mr. Novelli stated it is further up the gorge near the picnic area and is strictly for pedestrians . It
is for circulation on the trails and is a design feature in the Site Plan. There are three masonry
arch bridges for circulation where the units are located .
Mr. Clements stated there is still the wooden bridge near the edge of the property.
Mr. Kehoe affirmed this was the bridge that had been there .
Mr. Clements noted one of these would be a light duty vehicular bridge.
Mr. Kehoe stated it would be for small trucks, etc .
Ms . Barber stated until the stone retaining walls had been put on the creek, they have had
all his topsoil for the last two years that have filled their creek and gorge. It has never been that
full, it is being carried way out into the lake and past their dock it has filled so much. They are
quite concerned, under the second falls it has filled up so much silt and stone that when the last 2
inch rain came through it carried more away. It is about 4-5 feet deep but is still there, they are
still quite concerned.
Mr. Welch stated he would like to have the Board consider not allowing an outdoor public
address system, during the summer with the down draft you can hear clear as a bell. It would be
an annoyance-you can hear clear as a bell people on the lake-even if they do not realize this . He
feels it would violate his right for quiet enjoyment of this property.
Mr. Zeserson stated he had a general comment this is the third time they have been in a room
with Jamie and his people . The letter read implied they have not considered this, they are trying
to think hard about this . One of the things that has come up is there are dual uses for this
property-a motel 8 - 10 people would come use the cabins . It appears big enough for that it would
not cause a huge traffic problem. The question is when they have special events, he realizes they
cannot predict the future yet that is what they are charged to do . What happens when they have a
special event. They mentioned the sewage and he certainly has an answer to that in that he would
have the beautiful 30 feet long porta potty come onsite . They have addressed the issue of
parking previously it still becomes a major concern what do they do when they have 150 people
coming. He realizes they cannot solve it tonight but that the major problem is the proposed dual
use of this property-if they are going to have big events it is a different use than 10 units .
Mr. Kehoe asked if he may address this issue, he believes item seven on the list of items needed
by the Board. In the interim he has had a meeting with Doug Weeks, Chairman of the Board for
the Cayuga Nature Center, he has told him of his concerns as well as the Board and Town
regarding the safety for all of us, his guests, his neighbors as well as tourists driving on Route 89 .
He is not Grassroots and he is not having an event at Taughannock Park where they are parked
on Route 89 . He has attempted to speak with the Hanger Theater, the Cayuga Nature Center, as
well as Cass Park, he is willing to go to Taughannock State Park. They would be shuttling people
to and from the location. If there is a 100 people at 2 people per car they would have a
destination where these people could be transported rather than having the cars onsite.
It is their concern too and he is not opening tomorrow, it could happen next year but they are not
going to open until they solve all of these issues . He could open today, he has a CO, it has
always been a hotel, he has never changed it not to be a hotel . One of the issues before him is to
go through the proper channels, he does not want a 100- 150 cars pulling in and out. He wants
everyone to know that will not happen .
Mr. Clements asked if this would mean he would not have a parking lot to accommodate 150
people.
Ms. Allen stated they are allowing for 50 parking spaces on the property.
Mr. Kehoe stated he also would never allow parking on Route 89 , this is illegal. He has seen this
happen up and down 89 during parties people have and it is very dangerous .
Ms . Welch asked where the parking lots are .
Mr. Kehoe indicated on the map the lot to the North side and the center of the property.
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Ms. Allen stated for correction there are 56 spaces, they were asked to add handicapped parking
areas . She indicated on the map where the parking areas would be. She stated they had been
asked to provide parking for the buses-she indicated where the designated parking for buses
would be .
Mr. Means stated he would like to address the comment regarding horse manure smell and
runoff. The Board was concerned about this as well, Tompkins County Soil and Water has
plans and staff available to make sure this is dealt with so in theory there would not be problems
with this . They are trained and have people that deal with this area. It obviously would not be as
big a problem as a 1 , 000 cow dairy but they have the capability because it is near the South
boundary of this property.
Mr. Foss stated some of them have never seen the map of this property, he asked if they could
take 15 minutes and come review the map .
Ms . Chiuten stated that would be acceptable.
Members of the audience came up front to review the map displayed.
Ms . Welch asked while the members were reviewing the map she had a question she noted Jamie
had mentioned DEC does not require a permit for work done around the stream and she
wondered why.
Ms . Chiuten stated that it was her understanding, and asked to be corrected if she were wrong,
but DEC does not require work done specifically within the stream to require a permit, but do
require permits for soil and erosion control . The reason for that is the classification it is an
intermittent stream .
Ms . Allen stated they changed the regulation within the past year or so all construction activities
that disturbs more than one acre requires an erosion control plan. It became a law and they have
made the plan, when she first came onto the site she was amazed at the erosion controls that were
in place she does not know what happened before but the erosion control procedures were in
place.
Ms . Welch stated she had been in the area for 60 years and they had never had mud come down
through there like she has seen recently.
Ms . Allen asked her if she has seen an improvement since the control measures were put in
place.
Mr. Welch stated he thinks it has subsided a little. But if you go back 12 - 14 months when he
called the DEC there were all kinds of work being done with no black plastic or anything for
erosion control . He does not know who Jamie had doing the work, whoever he was did not pay
attention to anything. Once the grass was in place it helped, now that the rocks that could handle
Salmon Creek to come down through are in it is better, he offered a by the way to Mr. Kehoe that
it is a first class job . But while he does not want to do anything to affect Jamie, he pays dearly in
taxes to live on the lake, it costs $ 80. 00 a day to look at the lake. If he cannot get good water and
peace and quiet there will be big problems .
Ms. Chiuten asked if there is any currently any exposed soil on the site.
Ms . Allen stated there is but the erosion control devices are intact .
Mr. Novelli stated people need to be aware there is erosion coming from farms up above.
Ironically, they can disturb 100 ' s of acres without stormwater permit and they will see a
connection between erosion and the streams . He is not saying Jamie has not created any of this
but there is a lot that comes down the hill .
Ms . Chiuten asked if there was any way to stop it once it comes onto his property.
Mr. Kehoe stated it is coming from the other side of Dubois Road, he is not sure where the creek
starts, he is at fault for the erosion problems because of the gentleman that did it before him . But
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if you walk up above his property and look down you can see it coming down from the creeks in
the field.
Ms . Schneider asked Mr. Welch if he had seen a lot of sediment movement this summer with the
big rain events they had.
Mr. Welch affirmed with the big rain they did see silt, but again he had planted grass . Until he
started working near the road where he had not had a chance to plant grass that eliminated soil
erosion. He cannot say it is not coming from the farms up above, they all know whatever they
put on the ground eventually gets into the lake. Silt wise, they have had more in their beach well
then they ever have, they have had to put in and pump it backwards to blow the silt out. It is
interesting they went to a seminar on the lake, originally the lake was 1200 feet deep now the
deepest is 485 feet due to silt coming into the lake over 1 ,000 ' s of years .
Ms. Northrop asked if they had enough drinking water.
Mr. Kehoe stated they have been very lucky, they lost one well at the beginning, but were able to
drill and are getting 10 gallons per minute . They currently have three wells on the site and they
average 10 gallons per minute .
Ms. Chiuten asked the public if they had any additional comments/questions, none were
acknowledged.
Ms . Chiuten asked the members if they would like to close the hearing or leave it open.
Ms . Schneider asked Mr. Coogan for clarification regarding closing the public hearing and
procedures .
Mr. Coogan stated if they close the public hearing the determination must be made within 62
days or it is automatically approved . They can ask to continue the public hearing at a later date
while they get subsequent information. If they keep the public hearing open they will have
another hearing even if it is to close the hearing. The 62 days starts from the closing of the public
hearing.
Ms. Chiuten stated they need to decide if they feel the public has had adequate time to see this
project and comment on it. She is not sure if new concerns will be brought up they have covered
a lot of stormwater issues including septic , soil erosion , noise, numbers of people and intensity of
use on the site, they have touched on traffic a little bit, neighbor concerns regarding boundaries,
they talked about light, odors parking and water.
Ms. Schneider stated it is a question that tonight was the first time some had seen the maps, they
need time to digest and therefore may have additional comments . She asked if the audience felt
they have had adequate information and time to digest or would they like to have more time.
She would like to see if they felt they need additional time for public input.
Ms . Welch stated it is a concern because so many items were addressed tonight she wondered
how the problems would be addressed and wondered if they would have a chance to comment
back.
Ms . Chiuten stated that the procedure whether the public hearing is closed tonight or at a later
date they will hold another meeting to discuss the comments and work with the applicant to find
solutions for these concerns . They may be written into the resolution as a condition of what the
applicant has to abide to, all of those meetings are open to the public . If members show up they
would listen to their complaints . The regular meetings are the first and the third of each month.
They have not set the new meeting date.
Mr. Wertis stated he would suggest they keep the hearing open, have a meeting and publicize the
results of that and make it available through Town Hall . Invite people to the 2nd hearing so they
can react to what they may have discussed and put in as conditions . He stated he can change that
to a question-would they be able to meet to formalize conditions put on the project and give that
feedback to the applicant.
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Ms . Chiuten stated she believed so, they have been keeping a running list and the applicant has
been good about responding. They had a list of additional items yet they are just reviewing this
information for the first time.
Mr. Wertis stated he is hearing that Jamie has come up with solutions but people would like to
see it in some formal written documented manner, that will take some discussion.
Ms . Chiuten stated the resolution is the documentation.
Ms . Allen stated they did provide that information in writing.
Mr. Wertis acknowledged that it would take time to review this information.
Ms. Schneider stated she agreed with Mr. Wertis ' suggestion, they keep the hearing open,
the Board can meet to come to a consensus then present this to the public at the continued
hearing for comments .
Mr. Novelli stated in support of his client, Jamie Kehoe he would like to remind the Planning
Board he did make the detailed plans available before August 15th, the hearing was publicized
30 days ago . His concern on Jamie ' s behalf if the hearing is kept open and puts out comments or
feedback from this hearing how many times will this repeat how long will it go on.
Mr. Coogan stated the hearing was advertised 15 days ago .
Mr. Kehoe asked if he would have to wait another 62 days, when would the next hearing be and
would he have to list it in the newspaper.
Ms . Chiuten stated the meeting would be set tonight.
Mr. Kehoe stated he does not work here in town and he wants to get the information to them,
it is hard for him to get back and forth and he needs to work to pay for the silt fence .
Mr. Wertis made the MOTION, Ms. Schneider SECONDED to the keep the Public Hearing
OPEN . The vote on the motion was unanimous .
Ms. Chiuten and the members reviewed the calendar and established the next meeting date
available for all members would be November 2nd at 7 : 30 pm . She requested Mr. Coogan
advertise this meeting as is necessary. Ms . Chiuten stated this is an open meeting and all are
invited to attend, they would be hashing over the information received as well as comments from
tonight ' s hearing.
Ms . Allen asked if at the November 2nd meeting would they be coming up with a list of items
needed, if they did develop a list could this be emailed to her.
Ms. Chiuten stated they could try to develop the list from notes tonight.
Ms. Schneider stated she needed time to review and digest the material provided as well as go
over the comments tonight, she does not feel comfortable preparing the list tonight.
Ms . Chiuten acknowledged this would be fine, do we have the information needed to contact
Ms . Allen.
Mr. Coogan stated he would need Ms . Allen ' s email address as well as the correct mailing
address to direct correspondence to .
Ms . Allen stated she has brochures as well as cards in her car she will retrieve them after the
meeting.
Ms . Chiuten and the members reviewed the calendar and established the next Public Hearing
date available for all members would be November 15th
Mr. Kehoe stated he could not be here on the 15th, he has to work from the 13th through the
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21sn. He asked if he could have Ms . Allen and Mr. Novelli represent him, as Ms . Allen stated she
would like to get the Public Hearing closed, if they do not have the meeting that night they
would have to wait until after Thanksgiving.
Mr. Wertis asked for clarification as to when Mr. Kehoe would be back in town he is concerned
there may be issues that are not related to engineering and would like to get these addressed.
Ms . Allen informed the members if the information is emailed to her, she can get in touch via
email and cell phone with Mr. Kehoe to have questions answered if necessary prior to his return
date of November 21n. She stated if the email addresses are provided she can send the
information via email to the Board members . She stated she would not be present on the
November 2nd meeting, it was her understanding they would be reviewing tonight ' s meeting her
office is in Corning so if they email this list this would help her cut travel time and distance .
Ms . Coogan and Ms. Chiuten affirmed he can have others represent him and that this would be a
workable solution .
Mr. Kehoe affirmed this would be acceptable and expressed his thanks to the Board.
Mr. Coogan requested Ms . Allen email the information to him or Ms . Carlisle Peck and they
would forward onto the other members .
Ms. Chiuten asked Mr. Coogan if we had to advertise this hearing, he stated he would take care
of this as well as the November 2nd meeting date . The continued Public Hearing date is set for
November 15th at 7 : 30 pm at the Town Hall.
Mr. Wertis made the MOTION to adjourn, Mr. Means SECONDED the motion. All in favor
the Public Hearing was adjourned at 8 : 55pm
Respectfully submitted,
Robin Carlisle Peck
Secretary
10/28/06