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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-12-13 - PB Ili a a I i' r1 ' , I 1 .. _: I . -:L1 1 _ � � d . .� I�� , t 1� ; , . -I _ _ . • /o4'R ', , ItiftiW r TOWN OF ULYSSES ' ra i; - 3OINT PLANNING BOARD & TOWN BOARD % 1/ ZONING WORK SESSION PRESENT: Supervisor Doug Austic, Councilpeople Carolyn Duddleston, Andrew 10 / Hillman, Sue Poelvoorde, Robert Weatherby, Planning Board Chairman George Kennedy, Planning Board Members Rick Geiger, Lorren Hammond, Rose Hilbert, David Tyler, Code Enforcement Officer Alex Rachun, Planning/Zoning Clerk Karin Lanning . Recording Minutes: Karin Lanning ALSO PRESENT: Bill McAneny. Chairman George Kennedy called the meeting to order at 7 : 34p. m . The business of approving the 2000 minutes was before the Planning Board . Mr. Geiger noted that the Planning Board decided at the start of the joint work sessions that these meetings did not require official minutes. The Planning Board meeting of January 12th was unofficial, Mr. Tyler moved, seconded by Mr. Geiger to approve the meeting's unofficial minutes. All aye's Mr. Tyler moved, seconded by Mr. Hammond to accept for filing the unofficial minutes of joint zoning work sessions from January 27th 2000 through October 11th, 2000. Chairman Kennedy asked if it would be agreeable to the Planning Board members to plan on ending the work session by 9 : 00p. m . This was acceptable to the Planning Board . Chairman Kennedy opened discussion of the proposed Zoning Ordinance amendments. Mr. Kennedy expressed his concern that many of the Town residents who spoke at the public hearing for the amendments were unfamiliar with the content and, in some cases, existence of the Town's Comprehensive Plan . Mr. Kennedy asked if other Planning Board members had also noticed this. Mr. Hammond stated felt that those who spoke against the amendments were unfamiliar with the amendments they spoke against. Mr. Tyler asked what the Town Board's reaction to the public hearing was. Ms. Poelvoorde felt that the Town should have and should in the future schedule informational workshops before setting up a public hearing . The Board briefly discussed what the average cost of a five-acre lot would be. Mr. Tyler stated that he would like to know more about transfer of development rights. Mr. Hillman felt that the proposals might be a good stop-gap to halt rapid development until such time that the Planning Board could draw up a completely amended ordinance. Mr. Austic stated that he felt acreage was not necessarily an effective means of guaranteeing less road cuts and houses along a road . Mr. Austic illustrated his point by indicating two different lots on the map . Mr. Austic also presented a map that showed development patterns for the last seven years, noting that only a small number of the recently built houses were built on one-acre lots and that most were on lots consisting of at least 2 acres. Town of Ulysses 2 Joint Town Board & Planning Board Zoning Work Session 12/ 13/2000 Mr. Tyler and Mr. Hammond felt that, since most of the recently built homes had been built on lots that were two acres or larger, larger Minimum lot sizes would not put a great strain on residents' ability to build . Mr. Austic expressed the view that a lack of strain on the majority of residents does not justify an increase in minimum lot size. Mr. Tyler argued that a larger acreage lot would probably result in a more expensive dwelling being built and that two of the goals the proposals were designed to address were increasing the 'Town's tax base and to avoid burdening municipal services. Mr. Tyler cited concern for municipal services in stating that the Trumansburg School district is just about at full capacity and will remain so even after the planned renovations. Mr. Austic pointed out that many smaller homes are for retirees, not families, Mr. Tyler asked Mr. Rachun whether he could confirm his understanding from clients and other acquaintance's that much of the draw to the Town of Ulysses is the Trumansburg School District. Mr. Rachun stated that many new homes are built as retirement homes, but acknowledged the existence of portable houses with three or four children as well . Mr. Austic stated that average spending per child by the Trumansburg School district is $7, 500-8, 000 annually, and that a property would have to be assessed at approximately $ 1 . 5M for school taxes to total these expenditures. Mr. Tyler stated this was not what he intended , but that property assessments of $200, 000 to $300,000 certainly would help . Mr. Austic stated that average property assessment in the Town of Ulysses is about $ 110,000 and expressed the belief that the minimum should accommodate more than those of average and higher income people. Ms. Poelvoorde interjected that many retirees do not want the struggle of maintaining their own property, and thus do not want another house . Mr. Hammond noted that the vast majority of properties in the Town would have a two-acre not a five-acre minimum lot size. Mr. Tyler expressed the desire for information on development rights and felt that the Planning Board should look at the Comprehensive Plan again, and in the I future hold informational meetings prior to any public hearings. Mr. Tyler stated that the reaction to the recent proposals was very similar to the initial reaction to the Site Plan Review Ordinance of the early 1990's. Mr. Tyler also expressed his belief that the major argument large landowners in the Town had with the proposals was the fact that they felt the amendments would not do anything for them . Mr. Hammond urged the Planning Board not to lose sight of its goal for the amendments to prevent "strip development" while still working on the Zoning Ordinance as a whole. Ms. Hilbert asked for the opinion of the Town Board . Mr. Hillman responded, saying that he did not think the two and five acre requirements would be unreasonable. Mr. Tyler felt it was important to encourage larger lots in order to encourage more expensive properties, but acknowledged that smaller scaled properties are also important. Mr. Tyler further stated his preference for good, working laws than laws created and/or pushed through to "get something on the books" . Town Attorney, Mr. Bruce Wilson first stated that proposals that are to serve as "stop gaps" should be noted as such . Mr. Wilson also felt that the recent proposals drawn up by the Planning Board inconsistently dealt with issues noted in the Comprehensive Plan . He cited as an example his understanding that rural preservation is not typically identified as a need along main corridors, the areas where minimum lot sizes would be five acres. Ms. Hilbert responded by saying that because the main corridors are what visitors to the area see of a Town identified as rural, Town law should protect 1 I I, ; � .., I di ,. I . : , i . _. . I �V 1I . : �. a . .,__. “ . Town of Ulysses 3 D Joint Town Board & Planning Board Zoning Work Session 9 12/ 13/2000 the rural character of the main corridors to promote tourism and draw people to the area. Mr. Wilson and Mr. Tyler noted that the Jacksonville Water District that could be established would seriously change the dynamics of the Town, both felt that the appropriateness of the recent proposals would be affected if the water district were approved . Mr. Wilson felt the Planning Board should consider Mr. Austic's recommendation to require more frontage as opposed to more acreage. Mr. Hammond asked what the Town Board wanted the Planning Board to do and expressed great frustration . Mr. Austic felt the Planning Board should determine whether they were seeking more acreage or more frontage. Planning Board members responded by saying that both were important. Mr. Geiger stated that the Planning Board had made vast compromises in watering down their wishes to the recent proposals. Ms. Hilbert asked Mr. Austic whether he was for or against the proposed amendments. Mr.. Tyler stated that he did not believe the current Town Board would pass the proposed amendments. He noted his belief that three of the five 'members had serious reservations about the amendments and would subsequently not vote in favor of them . Mr. Weatherby stated that he did have real reservations and that he would rather hold public information meetings than try to further water down the proposed amendments. Mr. Weatherby also noted that the formation of the Jacksonville Water District would severely alter Town dynamics and thus the impact of the amendments. Mr. Kennedy asked Town Board members for their feelings concerning two-acre minimum lot sizes, noting that he had heard disapproval of the five-acre minimum . Mr. Weatherby stated that he did not have a problem with a two-acre minimum, that he was in favor of clustering , but was opposed to the "garage" requirement. Mr. Weatherby further stated that he would like to see the proposals cleaned up. Mr. Hammond reproved the Town Board members, stating that they had unanimously expressed their approval of the proposals and that the proposals had been worked and re-worked to accommodate their wishes. Mr. Hammond further expressed frustration, wondering what the Planning Board was supposed to do . Mr. Tyler drew a comparison to the Town Board ' s handling of the proposed amendments to a previous Ulysses Town Board's "running for cover" at a public hearing on Site Plan Review after supporting said document in discussions. Mr. Austic responded to comments from Mr. Hammond and Mr. Tyler by saying that the views expressed at the public hearing and in written comments had not determined his view of the amendments. He stated that he had listened to public comments, but noted that he had felt throughout the work sessions to re-write the Zoning Ordinance that there was not a serious problem and that no vast changes were needed . Further, Mr. Austic stated that he believed Town laws should be such that all residents can live and work with them. Mr. Tyler responded to Mr. Austic by the accusation that, if the vast majority of expressed public sentiment had been in favor of the amendments, Mr. Austic would not have been opposed to the proposals. Mr. Austic affirmed Mr. Tyler's statement, noting that if the vast majority of expressed public opinion had favored the amendments he would have concluded that he had been unaware of the wishes of residents. Mr. Tyler stated that he was opposed to a town-wide two-acre minimum lot size, and that he would rather re-look at the issues and start again than send the 1 � 0 Town of Ulysses 4 Joint Town Board & Planning Board Zoning Work Session 12/ 13/2000 proposals to vote. Mr. Tyler re-asserted his belief that the Town Board would vote the proposals down . Mr. Kennedy asked Mr. Tyler, etc : for a better idea than a town-wide two-acre minimum lot size. Mr. Tyler re-stated his belief that the establishment of a Jacksonville Water District would so change the dynamics of the Town as to render the recently proposed amendments obsolete. Mr. Kennedy asked Mr. Tyler if he felt these changed dynamics would not be accommodated by the proposal's variance clause. Mr. Tyler stated that he felt the proposed amendments would be absolutely obsolete with water the water district and rued that wort; to create said water district had not been taking place a couple of years earlier. Mr. Hammond asked Mr. Tyler about the issues of acreage, open space, and development rights? Mr. Tyler replied that, in his view, all these issues were connected , and that development rights should have been looked into . Mr. Hammond wished to have it be noted that some large landowners had expressed approval of the amendments. Ms. Hilbert spoke against the idea of town-wide two-acre minimum lot size. She stated that the Planning Board had already watered their ideas down more than she believed they would and more than she felt they should have and that she was opposed to further compromise. Ms. Hilbert further expressed her belief that the Town Board should provide public information and support the proposals of the Planning Board rather than "sitting blankly" at the public hearing while residents expressed uninformed fears. Ms. Hilbert felt that, despite any difficulties they may face, the Town Board should accept and approve the proposals that the Planning Board submits. Ms. Hilbert further noted that the petitions turned in in opposition to the proposed amendments consisted of often- illegible signatures from individuals who just happened to pass through a j business. She noted that, as many of the signatures were illegible and very few addresses were given, it was not possible to ascertain whether the people who signed were Town of Ulysses residents. Ms. Hilbert stated that the Boards should look at the survey of issues that was conducted around 1994 for the opinion of Town residents. Ms. Hilbert stated that most of the Town of Ulysses is in favor of the proposed amendments, that not passing said proposals would result in the belief that neither the Town Board or the Planning Board had done their job . She concluded by stating that she was more concerned for the sake of those who favored the amendments than those who spoke against them, noting that these people have already had their interests compromised by the watering down of the Planning Board's ideas. So saying, Ms. Hilbert urged the Town Board to act on the same concern for those who were in favor of the amendments. Mrs. Duddleston and Mr. Wilson encouraged Ms. Hilbert and other Planning Board members to speak to Town residents about Planning issues. Mr. Tyler expressed anger at the attitude expressed towards the appointed Planning Board members at the public hearing . He stated that all the Planning Board members are residents of the Town of Ulysses and that he is not on the Planning Board with a personal agenda that will serve only himself, and noted that he feels this is the perception Town residents have of the Planning Board . Mr. Wilson interjected the fact that, statutorily the Town Board appoints the Planning Board and is only obligated to consider its suggestions. Mr. Geiger reiterated the previously expressed view that, the proposed amendments were greatly watered down from what the Planning Board envisioned and that all compromise had been on the side of the Planning Board . Mr. Tyler expressed his opinion that the Planning Board should continue working on the Zoning Ordinance. Mr. Kennedy initiated discussion of the garage/ storage area requirement. Mr. Kennedy stated that the goal of the clause was to mandate sufficient storage i • I' � , � 3 �. .. 11 i�, �. [ i IL ■ If +, ( LI Town of Ulysses 5 Joint Town Board & Planning Board Zoning Work Session 12/ 13/2000 area to decrease the leaving of items outdoors and the aesthetic problem that is the result of this practice. Mr. Hammond added to Mr. Kennedy's statement, noting that, since clauses requiring a foundation or basement had been rejected, the Planning Board had put a storage space clause in to mandate sufficient storage by some means. Mr. Rachun pointed out that the clause would not inherently result in residents putting such items as traditionally are left in yards into storage space. Mr. Wilson stated that he is not aware of any local laws that mandate storage space. Mr. Tyler asked Mr. Geiger for his view on the establishment of a town-wide two- acre minimum lot size. Mr. Geiger responded that he would be opposed to a town-wide two-acre minimum lot size. Mr. Bill McAneny, in the audience, suggested the Planning Board look into perimeter rules, and gave examples. Mr. Kennedy stated that it was close to 9 : 00p . m . and asked the Town Board to give the Planning Board clear direction on what it should do now. Mr. Kennedy noted that he and the rest of the Planning Board Members are extremely frustrated . Mr. Tyler stated that the matter was a political one for the Town Board members and told Mr. Kennedy that the Planning Board informally knew what Town Board members' feeling on the proposed amendments were. Mr. Kennedy asked Mr. Tyler to let the Town Board members speak. Mr. Austic stated he was leaning against the proposed amendments. Mr. Hillman stated he was in favor of the proposals. Mr. Weatherby stated that he felt the Town Board should meet and discuss. He also noted that he felt that different members of the two boards might have paid attention to different opinions expressed by the public. Ms. Hilbert stated that she did not consider most of the opinions expressed by the public to be information, noting that she saw a great deal of uninformed fears expressed . Because of this, Ms. Hilbert urged Town Board members to put a positive "spin" on the proposed amendments. Mr. Weatherby stated that a public hearing was not the appropriate place for Town Board members to express support for a proposal . Ms. Hilbert disagreed , but stated that for this reason the Town Board should hold public informational meetings to tell residents what amendments would do for them Mr. Rachun pointed out that Site Plan was passed only after a lot of promotion and discussion on the part of Town officials and noted that the initial reaction to this ordinance had been even more negative than the negative reaction to the most recent proposed amendments to the Zoning Ordinance. Mr. Tyler reasserted his belief that the Boards should do more "homework" . Ms. Hilbert dissented, saying that the Planning Board had done its homework and it was time for the Town Board to promote the proposed amendments to the public. Mr. Kennedy stated that it would be senseless to re-work the proposals or continue with the task of constructing a new Zoning Ordinance until the Town Board gives the Planning Board clear directions. Noting this, Mr. Kennedy requested that the Town Board meet and discuss their wishes concerning the Zoning Ordinance, and submit written direction to the Planning Board . With discussion over, Mr. Hammond moved , seconded by Ms. Hilbert to adjourn the meeting . The motion passed unanimously. Town of Ulysses 6 \\ Joint Town Board & Planning Board Zoning Work Session 12/ 13/2000 The meeting adjourned at 9 : 00p . m . Karin T. Lanning Planning Zoning Clerk KTL : kI