HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995-02-09 - PH TOWN OF ULYSSES / VILLAGE OF TRUMANSBURG
PUBLIC HEARING
February 9 , 1995
Present : Town of Ulysses Board : Supervisor Doug Austic ,
Councilpersons Ben Curtis , Catherine Stover , Bob
Weatherby . Tom Reitz attending another meeting .
Recording Secretary : Paula Mount , Deputy Town Clerk .
✓ illage Board - Members : Mayor Tom Bennett , Trustees :
D on Fairchild , Jackie Merwin , Barbara Page , Bill
G riswold .
Hunt Engineers : Jim Carl , Timothy Rock .
Tompkins County Planning : Jim Hanson , Dave Carlson .
• Others Present : See sign - in sheet .
Supervisor Austic opened the public hearing at 7 : 30pm and stated
the purpose of the public hearing is to discuss the HUD Grant
Application , and the results of the engineering study . Mr .
Austic introduced Jim. Carl and Timothy Rock / Hunt Engineers .
Jim Carl displayed the plans developed and explained the route
the water lines would take . Two issues to address : first
o ne . . . South end [ ShurSave , Maguire Car Dealerships , Halsey House ,
e tc . ] water lines would loop from school and run down to
H alseyville Road along the east side of RT 96 . Cost for this
project : $ 540 , 000 . Basically the well water at the ShurSave is
marginal . To extend the water line along RT 96 ; the closest
point to tie in would be Cemetery Road . Given that the water
flow is marginal there , we would recommend looping of the water
mains near the school complex to the water main on Cemetery Road ,
then extending down to Halseyville Road : - With this lay - out the
fire flow along RT 96 would be over 2000 gallons per minute ,
w hich would be good . . Concerning the cost quoted for this ; a good
deal of the work will - be -. in : the State right - of - way ; may be able
to cut cost by getting : off . the road some way . Also depends on
d esign ; thus Hunt feels - comfortable with the cost quote at this
time .
Mr . Curtis : East side of road ; you ' re talking about getting off
the road a ways ? _
Mr . Carl : Yes ; pretty good size gas main along that side of the
✓ oad .
Mr . Curtis : Towards Smith Woods ?
Mr . Carl : That ' s the protected forest ? It would be on that
side , yes .
Mr . Rock : Getting off the road would include getting easements ,
if it stays within the road DOT would probably require the cost
increase . . -
Mr . Curtis : Are you talking about going into the Smith Woods
• area ?
Mr . Rock : No .
Mr . Carl : One question was what would additional water demands
d o to the Frontenac well . Water use posed by these existing
business will be very low compared with the overall water
produced now . - Comparing average daily demands vs . average daily
amount of water produced in 1994 is roughly less than 2 % . That
)3
P ublic Hearing 2
✓ illage of Trumansburg /
Town of Ulysses
February 9 , 1995
e quates to the well having to run an extra 5 - 6 minutes per day to
accommodate this added demand . So that ' s the type of impact .
Mr . Curtis : Project build - out in that area ?
Mr . Carl : Only looked at current establishments and if they got
a water supply they could do some expansion .
Mr . Curtis : The 1 . 4 % includes that ?
Mr . Carl : Yes .
Mr . Griswold : Did you say the hydrant test ran about 500 ?
Mr . Carl : Yes , the exact test was done in September . Used the
h ydrant at the corner of RT 96 and Cemetery Rd . Got 455 gallons
per minute and 500 is really a marginal minimum for fire
fighting .
Mr . Curtis : Given the flow you are able to determine , if there
w as a commercial build - out in this area , would it support a
sprinkler system?
Mr . Carl : That ' s hard to say .
Mr . Rock : We believe we will be in excess of 2 , 000 gallons per
minute . We didn ' t have enough time to run the hydraulics ; most
sprinkler systems depend on the building and use of that
building . Can ' t predict .
Mrs . Merwin : Did you look at the possibility of expansion of
w ater at the North end , near the trailer park ?
Mr . Carl : Yes , that is the second part of the presentation .
This was addressed last year in another study we did . The static
pressures in that area are below recommended levels for physical
u se . 35 PSI are minimum and ranges up there are 30 and 20 .
Reason is that you are at a high elevation , above the Halsey
tank . Mr . Carl showed a diagram of the area .
Mr . Carl presented various solutions : install booster pump
station , form another service district ; another storage tank
w ould be a big benefit . After brief discussion the cost of the
project was asked . Mr . Carl indicated that the cost of the
project for the north end would be about $ 531 , 000 . which would be
the transfer pump station and water mains and a 150 , 000 gallon
storage tank .
Mr . Merwin : Questioned elevation ; asked about raising Halsey
Street tank .
Mr . Carl : Tank is 60 years old ; expensive to do that . Could put
another storage tank next to it and make it the primary tank .
Problem with doing this is it could affect pressure . Putting the
new tank by the trailer park , would establish a separate service
district . •
Mr . Curtis : Figures are startling . Noticed about 40 % is figured
in for engineering , etc . and would like to have you explain that ,
about $ 150 , 000 .
Mr . Carl & Mr . Rock : Contingency is actually 15 % , which is
fairly typical . Legal would be forming the water district , the
survey , grant administration , obtaining permits , overseeing
construction project , having inspectors on the job .
Mr . Curtis : Would the County be administering the grant ?
P ublic Hearing 3 <- ! 4
✓ illage of Trumansburg /
Town of Ulysses
February 9 , 1995
Mr . Austic : Yes .
Mrs . Merwin : All the estimates you have made are based on the
e xisting businesses and the trailer park . What I ' m not sure of
is how we would estimate if the Auble property were
d eveloped . . . how would you do that ?
Mr . Carl : That would be very difficult .
Mr . Austic : If you were to run the pump another hour , which
w ouldn ' t damage the capacity , you would have quadruple the water
and more than enough for any business in there . It can be done .
Mr . Rock : The pump now runs about seven or eight hours a day ;
Iit ' s fairly normal to have a pump run twelve hours a day .
Mr . Merwin : Questioned draw down . Concerned about the increase
in possibility of service water entering .
Mr . Rock : The Health Department will require you to test the
w ell for service water :
Ms . Page : Asked about the cost of a new filtration system .
Mr . Carl : Watkins Glen is spending 2 . 9 million .
Mr . Rock : Timetable is a little different , Health Department
w on ' t insist that you test for it until next year .
Mr . Fairchild : This has no bearing on the present project ; we
are going to have to do it anyway , new project or not .
Mr . Merwin : Sure it does ; need a hydrology report .
I Mr . Rock : Prior to ten years you will have performed this test
for surface water , if it passes this test that will be the end of
it ; if it fails the test you would have to put it in anyway .
Mr . Curtis : Test is not done periodically , just once and that ' s
it ?
Mr . Rock : Will be done once .
Mr . Tyler : Would think the issue is really the quality of the
lake water .
Mr . Rock : The hope is that you are in an aquifer that is
supplying water to the lake as opposed to the water coming from
the lake into the well .
Mr . Austic : If you read the figures concerning actual water use
you will see it is 3500 gallons a day ; the present pumping use of
the Village is 250 , 000 gallons , so even if you ten times what ' s
there now , you are talking 30 , 000 gallons increase as compared to
250 , 000 gallons a day now .
I Mr . Rock : The Health Department will probably require the
Village to do this test in about a year .
IIIDiscussion concerning the number of users at the south end of the
Village vs . the cost of the project , took place .
Mr . Curtis : Expressed concern . . . In early 80 ' s Hunt did a study
on running a water line to Jacksonville ; was going over those
figures and was under a million , about $ 700 , 000 . , was wondering ,
have the costs really skyrocketed . [ In a side discussion Mr .
Vann indicated that it was T . G . Millers who did the study ] .
Public Hearing 4
✓ illage of Trumansburg /
Town of Ulysses
February 9 , 1995
Mr . Carl : Presenting the worst case scenerio here . Not aware of
previous study .
Mr . Austic asked Jim Hanson and Dave Carlson to review the Grant
information for the public .
Mr . Hanson : When the grant was initiated we estimated the cost
being covered by a grant . The Town and Village had an interest
and a joint grant would be about $ 600 , 000 . You did not have an
u pdated engineering report and of course this information came in
yesterday , and as you know it is higher than the grant would
allow . The options are tailored to amount of money available .
L ooking at one possibility being the south end of town and
✓ unning that lateral out there and being about $ 400 , 000 . One of
the problems is , you have to prove the number of commitments in
terms of jobs . At this point the timing is not good because of
the pieces to still put together . The other thing is that HUD
h as shortened the length of time , with a due date for the
application February 21st . So you have one side of the community
that needs the water , the south end ; the north end you have the
trailer park , pressure problems , etc . and that ' s really another
project .
Mr . Carlson : When we first started talking about the project and
a duel application , think the idea was that there would be some
n ecessary improvements that the Village would undertake in order
to get the water out to the south of town . The engineering
report doesn ' t indicate that any of that is required ; that there
is enough water available , that the only impediment is that doing
the project from the Village ' s standpoint is just getting
permission to get the water down to the south end of town . What
w e have done is eliminated the need for a joint application .
That means the town could apply for a $ 400 , 000 . grant to do the
w ater main extension . That component of the project , as we ' ve
h eard , costs $ 540 , 000 . leaves you with money to get to be able to
do that . This engineering report has changed the nature and
composition of the proposed application . If we could put one
together , if you decided that , it would just be for the Town of
U lysses . The second factor is justification to HUD for the
project . When we first started talking about this didn ' t know
the application deadline ; having the deadline of February 21st ,
w hat it has done is put a burden on trying to come up with an
e conomic development project ; create jobs and put all that
information . . . it ' s not good enough to have a letter saying we
w ill do this . . . need bank letters indicating funding , projects
✓ eady to go contingent upon the water . We don ' t have that and
it ' s virtually impossible to get it between now and the 21st . So
have two major impediments : one , the cost and two , having
projects on hand ready to go that would be adequate enough for
HUD to give it a score high enough to get funded .
My feeling is that we don ' t have that . The engineering report
g ives you good data , a good reason to pursue getting the funding .
S o it ' s not that this report can ' t help you with the grant , just
can ' t help with the grant that we are dealing with on February
21st . Just don ' t have enough information . Frankly you have the
h urdle of the dollars , get by that and still have a few hurdles
to climb . In my estimation you don ' t have those factors far
enough along to do a HUD application and have a reasonable chance
of funding .
Mr . Austic : Asked when next competition would take place ?
Mr . Carlson : Up in air ; probably a year from now .
Mr . Austic : Basically you are telling us that we have good
information , we have a doable project , possibly a fundable
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Public Hearing 5
✓ illage of Trumansburg /
Town of Ulysses
February 9 , 1995
project ; just don ' t have time to develop the information that HUD
w ould need tm , , , ' 1 t , : ; 1 , . ; otit . a }] le app ) i. ciati. on. . If we go now
the chances are not good .
Mr . Carlson : Your chances would be much less that 50 / 50 . I
w ould not submit it this year , if it was me . All pieces are not
in place .
Mr . Austic : You would recommend getting the information we need ,
use the engineering , and submit it next time .
Mr . Carlson : Yes , it ' s a competition . You have critical
information , now you can find some of the numbers , now you can
see if you can do the project less expensively , find other
funding sources , etc . What should happen over the next few
months , look for areas where we can combine . . . now know that it ' s
g oing to be expensive , know what we need to do and have an idea
o f some of the potential funding and can then tie this into more
permanent plans and get whatever businesses , get bank estimates ,
e tc . Between now and February 21st it ' s impossible , but between
n ow and six months from now , it might not be impossible .
Mrs . Merwin : Don ' t want it forgotten about why we [ Village and
Town had linked these two pieces of work ; extending the lines
and improvement to the system . Think people on both Boards
remember how those two are linked and that the Village has to get
something out of this , because the Village has a certain equity
built up in the water system and think there are certain risks
and implications to the Village with these extensions and we had
agreed that that is what the Village would get would be a capital
improvement to help improve the system .
Mr . Austic : After listening to all this information would
suggest that we not try to submit an application this year . Put
the pieces together and work toward next year .
Mr . Bennett : Wait and get together for next time .
H earing no further comments , Mr . Austic closed the public hearing
at 9 : 05pm .
Respectfully submitted ,
P aula J . Mount
D eputy Clerk
Town of Ulysses
I 077
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