HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993-02-22-PB ■
TOWN OF ULYSSES -
PLANNING BOARD MEETING
TRUMANSBDRG TOWN HALL
FEBRUARY 22 , 1993
PRESENT : Chairman , David Tyler ; Planning Board Members :
Budd Stover , Dan Smith and Gregg Hoffmi. re ;
Secretary : Roxanne Smith .
OTHER PRESENT : Mary McLallen , Charles Oafs , Tom Reitz , Ruth
Kahn and one other gentleman .
Chairman David Tyler called the meeting to order at 7 : 45 P . M . ,
and requested that the minutes of their last meeting of Decem -
ber 11 , 1992 be approved . The letter to William Hogan is in
e ssence the minutes of that meeting as there was no record
keeper present . The letter reflected the decisional meeting
o n the American Legion PUD application . Dan Smith made the
motion to approve the minutes . Budd Stover seconded the mo -
t ion , there was no discussion , all were in favor , the motion
passed . The minutes are now all up to date . Alex Rachun had
intended to be present at this meeting but was unable to attend
due to conjunctivitis . Krys Cail is out of town until the
11th of March and Gerri Keil is out of town until the 2nd .
There was no communication received from Dick Garner . David
suggested that this meeting would be spent in discussion of
t he matter that has now been referred back to the Planning
Board . Budd queried as to whether anything had been written up
as a result of Krys Cail ' s suggestions at the December 3rd
meeting . Dan stated that they seemed to be back ‘ at that point
as a result of the Town Board meeting . Everyone agreed .
D avid summerized that the Town Board tabled their considera -
t ion of the PUD and requested the Planning Board to consider
a new use in the zoning ordinance to describe a designation
like the Am .:. rican Legion and to state the conditions where it
could go . Dan said that at the December 3rd meeting they were
pressed for time towards the end and they didn ' t get into the
specifics of the Residential Zoning Ordinance . Dave thought
t hat Krys ' s concept was looking to take the more intense use
o ut of the first level of Residential and put it into a sec -
o nd level . The less intense Residential would be one or two
f amily dwellings . " M through P " would remain in - the R1 . The
R2 would consist of " F through L " and things such as a social
club , daycare and many things that haven ' t even been mentioned
before . Daved did want to point out one thing procedurely .
The Planning Board was asked to look at one specific parcel ,
t he PUD . Now they ' ve asked us to come back and look at the
e ntire Zoning Ordinance . If the Town changes the Zoning Ordin -
ance it becomes a legislative function that becomes townwide .
The development district is just one parcel . One solution is
t o make an across the board change in the Zoning Ordinance
which provides for the social club or whatever you want to call
this specifically . A gentleman from the audience raised the
q uestion are you limited in changing the zoning until the com -
pre'nensive plan has been enacted ? Dave replied that they wern ' t
n ecessarily restricted in changing the ordinance . The problem
is after they go ahead and create an R1 and R2 , where to locate
them . The Master Planning Committee is the body to recommend
where to locate them not the Planning Board . Dave mentioned
t hat Alex had relayed that in the next few weeks the maps will
be ready and that the Master Planning Committee will be able
t o meet .
Dave stated that it is important to recognize that once something
life this is put in as a permitted use , even with a special per -
mit with specific conditions that there is still only one Residen -
tial Zone . As long as the conditions are met this social club
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P lanning Board Meeting
February 22 , 1993
could be placed anywhere within the zone . The PUD is a legisla -
t ive process . If the Town rejects it , the person has no claim
against the Town for not Granting it . If granted , a spot zon -
ing challenge can be made , but if not what does this do to the
zoning ordinance ? The Town Board is reluctant to follow through
with a PUD . Is there another way to accomplish this without a
P UD and without doing damage to the zoning ordinance in general ?
O ne way to go would be to place it in a B1 or B2 zone or in a
Residential with a Special Permit . Another alternative would
be to look at all the items in the Zoning Ordinance that require
a Special Permit and develop something that would handle them
across the board . Dan queried was the Special Permit defined any -
where in the Zoning Ordinance ? Budd mentioned the only thing he
found was on page 3 section 8 . David said that is really a pre -
amble .
D ave stated that frankly he was disappointed that the Town
Board did not act on the PUD one way or the other . The Plan -
ing Board may not be prepared to tinker with the Zoning Ordin -
ance to achieve the Town Board ' s desire . The Town Board has
tabled the issue and given the Planning Board 60 days to develop
a new use to the zoning ordinance . Dan said they could create
a Special Permit making it allowable using the definition of the
social club using Section 1 of Article IV . Then . it should come
t o the Planning Board not the BZA . The question was raised
should all Special Permits be rewritten ?
David asked that if the American Legion problem didn ' t exist here
and the topic came up for consideration would you put it in
Residential ? Dan responded that he would probably have to look
around and see what other districts have done . Dave mentioned
that his office had alot of zoning ordinances kicking around and
h e checked into it . They were all over the lot . The village of
L ansing kept it out of Residential and put it in . the low impact
business zone . The Town of Lansing has a Rural . Agricultural zone .
The Rural Agricultural zone allowed it but not the Rural Residen -
tial . ( Town of Ulysses has fewer categories than the other dis -
tricts . ) ' . •
D avid shared his thoughts on how important it is to look at the
concept . If the American Legion didn ' t exist , but . the Planning
B oard had been advised that they needed to be prepared for a
similar situation whyre exactly would it be placed ? That ' s the
q uandry the Planning Board is in .
D an asked pave about the letter Alex Rachun received from Helen
McLallen ( private citizen ) that David had copies of . David stated
he had not had an opportunity to read it . ( Everyone was given a
copy of it . )
D an asked David what he would consider the property from the
Town Village line out to Gregg ' s . Did he think it was Residential
or Rural /Agricultural / Residential . He said to really consider
it , not just looking at the road frontage but also the size of the
lots , the density and amount of agriculture . Is there some clear
cut definition of what Residential is queried Dan ? Dave stated
t hat that was a good question . He ' s more concerned with what the
developing trend is , not what is there now . One house per 10
acre lot may not constitute a true Residential stated Dan . Dave
said his definition would be based on two things . 1 . What is there
now ? 2 . What has been the trend in the recent period ? Is it an
area that is going into Residential or is it an area that is going
to stay Rural / Agricultural . He said there has been an • increase
in Residential where the American Legion grants to go but as you go
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P lanning Board Meeting
February 22 , 1993
further out it peters out to Rural / Agricultural . If more Resi -
dential goes in there what is the impact of water and sewer
contamination on the surrounding properties asked Dan . Isn ' t
there more impact form a greater number of smaller parcels
t han just one large parcel ? Dave responded that that is the
H ealth Department ' s area of expertise and that their rules are
✓ ery stringent . Dan disagreed stating that a lot of things
blamed on agriculture is actually coming from residential . Dave
t hought that probably applied to older neighborhoods . Dan said
t here is a world of difference between a house sitting on a 1
acre lot as opposed to a house sitting on a 10 acre lot . That ' s
a choice made by the individual as to how much land they want
surrounding their home stated David . Dan wondered if that would
have a different application in the Zoning Ordinance though . In
o ther words would a larger lot make it fall into a different
Residential section ? Should they differentiate ? A member of the
audience said that that has been addressed . It ' s called " Charac -
ter of Neighborhood " . David ' s gut reaction ( after driving out
and looking over the area proposed for the American Legion ) was
that the trend was toward Residential . Curry Road houses appear
t o be of a more recent vintage , with a few older homes ; further
o ut he didn ' t have that feeling . Unfortunately they do not have
t he benefit of a master plan .
D an Smith said that he felt that they should not have to split
the Residential into two sections . David disagreed and felt
t hat it should have been addressed a long time ago . By allowing
things to happen without a plan it becomes ad hoc . A master plan
is needed .
The first issue ( forgetting the American Legion ) is where would
you place this ? Dan responded a lesser density Residential .
After discussing philosophically the ramifications of not having
gradations in the Residential Dan changed his position stating
t hat he had not really thought it all through and that perhaps
D avid was correct . It was agreed that it might be a good idea to
check out the other munincipalities and do some comparisons .
In continuing the discussion on Residential David suggested
h aving a general clause that states any use not mentioned spe -
cifically ought to have a classification to head off problems .
A gentleman in the audience wondered who would define the usage ?
IIe felt the American Legion falls under the restaurant use now .
D avid agreed that it was at least analogous , it was an entity
t hat serves the public , or a segment of the public .
David stated that he would like more input . Alex Rachun unfortun -
atley will be away until the 15th of March . When questioned Gregg
felt he wasn ' t prepared to offer any suggestions . Budd stated
t hat Krys ' s ideas might prove to be too cumbersome . Dan said that
N ot - For - Profit isn ' t even mentioned in the Business District .
D avid questioned whether there should be a distinction for Not - For -
P rofit organizations . He felt that wasn ' t really the issue .
The issue is what is the impact of this social club in the com -
munity ( on roads , character of neighborhoods , etc . ) . As Krys
h ad stated earlier to David Not - For - Profit organizations still
have to meet all the required building codes , health and safety
✓ equirements . They are not exempt . It ' s important to evaluate
what this particular thing will do to the community . Dan said you
h ave to define it in the Zoning Ordinance . David queried Budd did
h e like the idea of doing it quick and dirty with the existing
Zoning Ordinance and placing it in a Bl or B2 ? Budd said that ' s
an option .
D avid asked if he should bring in the ordinances from the other
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P lanning Board Meeting
February 22 , 1993
municipalities ? It was agreed he should . Briefly looking
through the Village of Lansing it was discovered. that they
called it an indoor recreation club and it was classified as
a High Density Residential . David felt the easiest way with
what they have on the books would be with a B1 or B2 . A general
catch all would be placed in the ordinance for the required
definition . Dan suggested that the divided Residentials be
specific as to what could not go in there .
The next Planning Board meeting will be March 15 , 1993 at 7 : 30
P . M . at the Town Hall .
Tom Reitz stated that another issue that the Planning Board
was asked to address was the B2 Zone for Pleasant Grove .
David had received no communication on that issue . They ap -
plied for a PUD awhile ago . The Town Board would like the
P lanning Board to consider this a B2 Zone . Tom said he ' d make
sure all the information was gotten to David and members of the
B oard . Budd asked if they had withdrawn their PUD . application .
Tom replied no . David wants to resolve the social club issue
before moving to the Pleasant Grove project .
D avid mentioned that the New York State Office of Rural
Affairs is having a conference on planning board activities
o n the 21st of April at TC3 . The fee is $ 10 . 00 per person .
D avid asked if the Town Board would consider sending 6 or 7
members ? Tom said he ' d recommend that the Planning Board
attend it if possible . The mock planning board . meeting would
be useful . The Town Board meets on the 2nd Tuesday of the
month . The Master Planning Board will probably behaving a
meeting soon and David recommended all attend that could .
Tom Reitz mentioned that County Planning is looking at things
more closely , and that they are no longer a rubber stamp
operation . They ' re going through a transition now in their
re - location from the Biggs Building to the Old Court House .
D avid entertained a motion to adjourn . Dan Smith made the
motion , Budd Stover seconded . There was no discussion , the
motion passed . The meeting adjourned at 9 : 15P . M .
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