HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-03-06-STB-FINAL-minutesSPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
Town of Ulysses
March 6, 2019
Audio of the minutes are available on the website at ulysses.ny.us.
The meeting was held at the Ulysses Town Hall at 10 Elm Street, Trumansburg.
Notice of Town Board meetings are posted on the Town’s website and Clerk’s board.
ATTENDANCE:
TOWN OFFICIALS PRESENT:
Supervisor- Liz Thomas
Board members- Nancy Zahler, John Hertzler, Richard Goldman, Michael Boggs (arrived 4:08pm)
Deputy Town Clerk- Sarah Koski
Environmental Planner- John Zepko
OTHERS PRESENT:
Jean Houghton
Peter Houghton
Mario and Jeanne DelRosso
Roxanne Marino
Ann Filley
CALL TO ORDER:
Ms. Thomas called the meeting to order at 4pm.
Ms. Thomas shared that Town Attorney, Khandi Sokoni, is currently reviewing the draft zoning and
should be done within a week. The next step is for the Town Board to document their justifications
for the zoning updates. In reviewing documents created by zoning consultants Randall and West as
well as the Comprehensive Plan and Ag and Farmland protection plan, Ms. Thomas identified many
instances that these documents called for the preservation of natural beauty and rural character,
which is that the new zoning aims to do. Ms. Thomas cited survey results from both the
Comprehensive Plan appendix and the Ag and Farmland Protection Plan appendix which showed a
high interest in protecting farmland, keeping green and open spaces, and protecting streams and
groundwater among other similar goals. Ms. Thomas feels that these survey responses, along with
the other guiding documents provide a solid basis for the current proposed zoning update.
There have been numerous opportunities for public involvement in the zoning update process,
including thirteen outreach meetings, numerous email newsletter messages, and many public Town
Board meetings.
Discussion of Zoning Comments
The board discussed the following comments that were received for the 2/18/19 comment period
deadline. This is a continuation of a discussion of the comments started at the 2/26/19 regular Town
2
Board Meeting. Ms. Zahler announced that this was a working meeting of the Town Board, and as
such, there would be no privilege of the floor.
Key to abbreviations used below:
CP= Comprehensive Plan
CSAC = Conservation and Sustainability Advisory Council
CAFO = Confined Animal Feeding Operations
AFPP= Ag and Farmland Protection Plan
CZ= Conservation Zone
TB= Town Board
CITIZEN CONCERN/COMMENT TOWN BOARD RESPONSE
Comments from NYS Dept. of Ag on 2017
version of zoning about "reasonableness"
of zoning.
Not sure these are relevant with updated versions of zoning but will send final version to
NYS Dept. of Ag for review and comments.
CAFO and animal waste suggested
language changes (from CSAC)
TB - discuss with both CSAC and Gates/Ochs
NYS Ag and DEC may both have comments on these areas
Land preservation is of primary
importance. Stabilizes ag land base and
saves land for the future.
70/30 method of land preservation will help this in the future.
For smaller farms, such as 30 acres, the proposed zoning allows 4 subdivisions, each
subdivision allows up to three dwelling units (primary building could be a duplex, plus an
accessory dwelling unit) for a total of up to 12 dwelling units. For a 50 acre farm, a total of
7 subdivisions would be allowed with up to 21 dwelling units. For a 70 acre farm, a total
of 10 subdivisions would be allowed with up to 30 dwelling units. Ms. Thomas noted that
there were no comments received regarding dwelling units.
Mr. Hertzler asked if land preservation also includes detoxification of farmland from years
of pesticide application. Ms. Thomas replied that is outside the purview of zoning. Ms.
Zahler added that there may be funds through Soil and Water Conservation Districts to
help.
Minimize development in areas without
municipal water since well water is
unreliable in many parts of the town or
too expensive to bring in new water
districts.
70/30 method of land preservation will help this in the future.
NYS Ag and Markets does not want municipal water brought into ag districts, so it’s
doubtful there would be permission granted to extend municipal water lines into ag
areas.
Supports filing nutrient management
plans with the Town Clerk.
This is in the current draft zoning. Residents could then put in a FOIL request to learn
about these nutrient management plans. Ms. Zahler had been concerned that there may
be legal challenges to this move but has been assured by the CSAC that filing nutrient
management plans with the Town Clerk is legal and allowable.
Supports cluster housing
Current draft zoning allows this.
make mechanism for tracking subdivision
rights clear and easy to understand
Zoning officer has ideas on how this can be done administratively.
3
CITIZEN CONCERN/COMMENT TOWN BOARD RESPONSE
Develop fact sheets to explain what can be
done in various zones
The TB feels that these fact sheets would be very helpful for residents but Mr. Zepko feels
that creating these fact sheets will need to include many disclaimers since zoning is so
nuanced and will vary from parcel to parcel. There are no “short answers” to allowed uses
in each zone. Mr. Zepko will look further into this idea.
70/30 gives land-owners flexibility on how
their land is developed.
This is a reason the TB moved away from a division method of subdivision; 70/30 allows
more flexibility on how the land is development
Discourage development along roads
Ms. Zahler reminded the board that cluster development as well as flag lots would
address this concern. Mr. Goldman brought up the cluster subdivision bonuses - Ms.
Thomas replied that the TB decided to table cluster bonuses as they did not add in
sufficient incentives with the 70/30 method of subdivision.
CAFO and animal waste concerns and
documentation
TB is working on increasing the setbacks to animal waste ponds to protect water quality.
Ms. Zahler asked if the draft zoning would be sent to the DEC for comment. Mr. Zepko
replied that notifying the DEC would not be required but the TB could send the document
and request comment. Ms. Thomas noted that some studies show 80% of nutrients from
runoff that enters the lake comes from Ag., and that’s why the TB is concerned with
protecting water quality through animal waste regulation. Ms. Thomas does feel that
most farmers do an excellent job of managing manure. Ms. Zahler also mentioned septic
systems along the lake as being another source of nutrients, so it’s worth involving the
Health Department.
Generally opposed due to taking of
property rights
All zoning curtails some property rights. Mr. Zepko reminded the board that zoning also
controls development, ensures the orderly development of the town and preserves the
environment.
Opposed to limits on subdivision because
will negatively affect retirement
Most properties can subdivide many times still. This zoning will mostly affect the next
generation of land owners/farmers. Ms. Zahler asked if residents could opt of the county
ag district but still remain in the Town’s Ag Zone? Mr. Zepko replied yes. Mr. Zepko
explained that the county has an 8 year cycle of reviewing the ag district.
Encouraging the preservation of land, also
encourages conventional ag with its
pesticides and fertilizers. Would prefer
preservation of open space or residential
development.
70/30 preserves both land and open space while allowing 30% of the town to be
developed. The smaller ag subdivisions will eventually encourage either smaller farms or
open space over time. Mr. Zepko spoke with this commenter and the commenter felt that
the draft zoning encouraged large scale commercial farms and not smaller scale
“homestead” farmers.
zone to preserve the rural way of life
Zoning affects land use, so not sure how the rural way of living could be incorporated into
zoning. Mr. Zepko feels that in general the draft zoning does preserve a rural way of life in
that it limits residential development and preserves farm land. Ms. Zahler is not sure if
there is a way to encourage small farms or large farms though zoning. Mr. Zepko replied
that the current draft zoning would preserve a base amount of farmland for farm use,
either big or small, by discouraging residential development.
remove constraint on number of
accessory structures allowed to encourage
sustainable living
TB - revisit? This is only limited in the A/R zone.
Mr. Zepko reminded the board that the current draft of the zoning does not reflect what
the TB has discussed and agreed on for accessory structures. The TB will make sure the
final draft that is presented to the public will incorporate the correct version.
Allow rental cabins. Lodge limits 1
overnight guest/15 acres is too limiting (6
people/night)
Updated version allows 8 guestrooms/lodge located on at least 15 acres of land.
wants cabins on 2 acres of land not fit for
ag.
The existing definition of Group Campground should work. Mr. Zepko disagreed; that a
campground would not be an accessory use for a primary residence. The land would need
to be subdivided to accomplish this scenario.
4
CITIZEN CONCERN/COMMENT TOWN BOARD RESPONSE
Concerned over preservation methods,
Does not like design guidelines
(unspecific)
This commenter mentioned he is supporting a neighbor who is farmer. Mr. Zepko asked
how the TB feels about the design guidelines. Ms. Thomas replied that there are many
design guidelines to respond to. Mr. Hertzler replied that he likes the idea of designing a
place to look a certain way but it’s difficult to do in America. Mr. Goldman is concerned
about forcing parking behind or on the side of a building might be very expensive for
business owners. Ms. Thomas responded that the idea of parking behind a building came
from the comprehensive plan surveys where respondents preferred images that did not
include parking in front of buildings. Ms. Thomas reminded Mr. Goldman that this
regulation was geared towards large businesses that would be able to afford the added
expense. Mr. Zepko reminded the board that these are design guidelines, not design
standards, so there will be some flexibility when the planning board reviews a project.
Mr. Goldman asked if since existing businesses are grandfathered in, aren’t these design
guidelines moot? Mr. Zepko replied that as these businesses change hands, the guidelines
will apply.
Loves land, soil-wants to keep farming,
but wants relatives to be able to live
there. Used the /15 example on a 20 acre
parcel to say only 1 subdivision allowed
Under 70/30, the 20 acre parcel allows 3 subdivisions, not one.
Concern over loss of property value.
Although down-zoning has been used as a
land use control tool to prevent land
conversion and retain open space, its
impact on land values, and thus its
political viability is not clear. Existing
studies find mixed impacts on land values,
which make new down-zoning policies
difficult to pass.
Farmland values are high in Ulysses. Would reduced value help with taxes? If farmland
values decline, would more small farmers would be able to buy land? Ms. Zahler would
like to better understand the potential impact on land values. She has heard from farmers
that their loan potential is based on development potential. Since the new zoning will
limit development, loan potential will also be limited. Mr. Hertzler would like to propose
exempting current landowners from the proposed subdivision regulations. Mr. Zepko
responded that this would be logistically difficult for the Town to administer. Mr. Zepko is
also concerned that this would not treat people equally under the law. Ms. Thomas
reminded Mr. Hertzler that the board has adjusted the method of subdivision to allow
development rights into the future for several generations. She also reminded the board
that since the board has started the zoning update process, there have been some
subdivisions – that there has been a “grace period” for those who are concerned about
subdividing under the current zoning law. Ms. Thomas will check with the town attorney
on the legality of Mr. Hertzler’s proposal. Mr. Goldman mentioned another option may be
to put a timeline on the adoption of the zoning – that it would take effect in x number of
years. Ms. Zahler suggested building in some development threshold trigger for the new
zoning to go into effect.
20,000 sq ft building too restrictive
Based on the largest building currently in Ulysses. No limit in Ag/Rural on how many of
these buildings are allowed on a parcel. Ms. Zahler feels that Ag and Markets may
challenge this proposal. Mr. Zepko asked the TB their reasoning behind this restriction.
Ms. Thomas replied that limiting the square feet is the only mechanism the TB has to
limiting large CAFO’s.
CAFO regulations may reduce ag land
values by limiting potential buyers
TB consider: do you want to encourage small farming. IF land values drop, Lower land
values may allow newer farmers to enter the business. Mr. Zepko urged the board to be
careful not to encourage one type of farming over another.
70/30 too restrictive, prefer selling
development rights.
Addressed in earlier responses.
Ag committee has been ignored
Ag comments have been heard. Many people are giving input into the zoning besides ag,
all with different concerns. This is a group effort.
5
CITIZEN CONCERN/COMMENT TOWN BOARD RESPONSE
supports 80/20
Sprawl is a future problem to be
addressed now
70/30 is a compromise that tries to take into account many opinions.
Supports Waterburg as a separate hamlet.
Changed back to a hamlet in the current draft.
supports land preservation
Thank you
Concern over area on Perry City between
Jville and Halsey being now zoned A/R
changed from R2
Not on the water line, already fully developed, no benefit to increase density in this area.
1500ft2 for accessory dwelling is too small
in A/R, the primary building can have 2 dwelling units plus an accessory dwelling unit = 3
dwelling units/lot--more than ZUSC recommended.
supports preserving farmland while
protecting existing residential properties.
70/30 is a compromise that attempts to preserve land over time and separate residences
from farms.
Supports Waterburg as a separate hamlet.
Changed back to a hamlet in the current draft.
supports 80/20
requests change back to 80/20
70/30 is a compromise that tries to take into account many opinions.
opposed to land preservation method
A general comment from an anonymous commenter.
Have design standards in each section to
make more clear
While it’s understood that the zoning is difficult to follow, Inserting the design standards
in each section would be onerous and possibly more confusing
Ms. Zahler is concerned about those currently zoned R2 who will now be in the Ag/Rural zone who
would need more road frontage to subdivide as compared to the current zoning. Ms. Thomas
reminded Ms. Zahler that no comments have been received about this particular issue. Many
respondents to the Ag survey noted that they were not interested in selling their land because they
want to maintain privacy.
Next steps:
The Town Board will follow up on comments, incorporate Town Board recommendations into a new
draft, updated draft will be reviewed by the town attorney, then set lead agency and notify other
agencies. The County needs a one month review period. Ms. Zahler reminded the board of her
request to break the zoning update into two sections – the AR zone/subdivision separate from the
6
rest of the zoning update. Ms. Thomas replied that board would have to consider the logistics of
going forward with that plan.
ADJOURN:
Mr. Goldman moved to adjourn the meeting at 6:03pm, seconded by Mr. Hertzler.
Respectfully submitted by Sarah Koski on 3/12/19.